2005 513 V 2014 513

[BALIstic]

Hi Guys,

so Im looking at purchasing my second PRS, this time a 513. One reason this model appears is that I'm a Strat guy and the other is I like the fact the 513, like my Pauls guitar has proprietary pickups with a myriad of tones and switching options.

PRS'z aren't in every guitar shop where I live. In fact there is probably only10-15 new core guitars in my state and like two S/H and none of them are 513's, so I'm shopping online again.

I have the the choice of a new 14' 513 or a 05' 513 with Brazilian RW neck, 513 "special" birds. They are very close in price, ones new, the other is in mint condition. Is there a difference in the older 513 pickups and newer ones, wiring, or any other significant changes over the years ? The tuners are different, the 05 having sealed gear and gold hardware.

Colour wise, my first choice would be the 14 in Royal Blue (special order apparently) the 05 is a nice Orange with a FB that looks like ebony but seller states is also Braz RW.

I couldnt personally care about Braz RW factor but there is no doubt its relative rareness may make this guitar a better investment ? The 14' FB and headstock look lovely in whatever RW was used for 513 last year. I do like the older 513 birds, the brushstroke birds was something that attracted me visually to my Pauls, they are a bit different, unique.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[xjbebop]

I'm pretty sure the pups and wiring have evolved over the years. Someone will show up who knows. Plus a little google/ search time will educate you further..

 

[XiXora]

Aren't newer 513s hand wired and older ones PCB? I'm not sure.

 

[wardog]

You can get the older one's hard wired by the PTC team. The price is on the PTC link (sig switching). I contact PTC about when I was looking at getting a 513 or a 305. I was hoping they would have it on the support page under the schematic link, but no luck.

 

[g.wizz]

Mine is an AP from late 2013 and it came without PCB board so I guess
the 2014 will be like that too

 

[Dusty Chalk]

If they're ~the same price, I'd get the new one -- warranty!

 

[markintime]

Having absolutely no experience with the 513's, and given your stated preference for the Royal Blue color, I'd say go for it. But. My Paul's has a brazzy neck and fb and I have to say it sounds so welcoming with its warm tone that it is hard to give the others their share of playing time. Either way, I don't see how you could go wrong. Good luck!

 

[Dancing Frog]

I was told that hand wiring was a PTC aftermarket option and that they were still using the modular PC Board wiring on the production units. Regardless of whether it has a PC board or not. It's electronics will be of a different generation, because they redesigned the board at least once since '07. Back in '05, the Brazilian rosewood was very dark. It got lighter with each production year and uglier. Also, the neck carve has gone from its own special carve to pattern and the nut went from scalloped to regular around the time the modern birds disappeared. I don't think the scalloped nut matters that much, but the pattern carve is a different carve than the 513 which is not quite as narrow or deep as the 513. The greatest factor of difference is probably the woods. A 513 Rosewood has piano like lows with a slight mid scoop. How the 2014 compares will depend a lot on it's neck wood. If you're a Strat guy, the better ones would be a 513 with a maple neck and rosewood fretboard. It has more top end than a regular 513 which makes it closer to a Strat tonality, but you don't lose the mid range warmth as you do with one with a swamp ash body.

 

[justmund]

PTC is out, wouldn't be able to ship the BRW back and forth across US lines...

 

[Maertl513]

A few guys mentioned right things before.

A 513 Rosewood has - I learnt that a few days ago - a wrong MODCAT. Actually it has a BRW neck. This might be a serious issue shipping the guitar around the world without certificates (e. g. CITES).
Then a few things have been changed due technical improvements infecting the sound of the guitar to a certain extent.

I have no clue if they touched the pups but they do some revisions of the PCB. It has been the production standard in the core line models until production year 2014 (but they started in late 2013).
I talked to Paul personally at Musik Messe 2014 in Frankfurt, Germany. For the Private Stock customers they offered hand wired electronics (instead of a printed circuit board) for dealing with a more transparent sound.
(In my opinion (and experience) this was giving the 513 a more singlecoilish behaviour. More hum sensitiveness.). And indeed it is a after market option. But they offered aswell handwiring the pups to a PCB.
The never 513s (production line 2012) got the reviewed PRS nut (instead of the scalloped 513 nut) and Phase III instead of Phase II tuners.

My 513 was made in 2011 but got all 2012 specs (new nut, Phase III). Paul presented me the "full" hand wiring for free, and I sent my guitar to PRS and got that thing done by them.

I played a 513 RW (made in 2005). The haptical feel of a (B)RW is special and of course nice. From a tonal perspective I noticed a RW neck deliveres a more balanced sound playing unplugged than a 513 MT (with mahogany neck).
But amped I didn´t hear any difference in attack, sustain or else. For optical reason I like the new birds much better than the 513 birds.

To me a 513 MT is absolutely satisfying.

But it is up to your personal expectations (Do I need a BRW neck? Which specs do I like more? New or 513 nut, Phase III or Phase II, new birds or 513 birds, and Hand-wiring or PCB?).
My proposal is a 2014 513 MT.

 

[Deleted member 2284]

Which one sounds more stratty?

 

[Maertl513]

In case of the hum the hand-wiring makes a 513 more stratty.
There´ve been a few guys who published their concerns about noisy 513 pups. I asked them, if they could give information if they got a PCB or hand-wiring in the cavity.
They don´t replied. They kept secrets.

In coincidence of of my modification in the UK another guy (a German forum member) send in his 2014 (origin with hand-wiring) because of annoying buzz noise.
As far as I remember they had installed the mod to my guitar and it showed the same upsetting behaviour.

It took them several weeks of a comprehensive approach with Factory´s R&D Department, PTC, and Technical Devision of PRS Europe.
They tried to identify the reason.
In the end they reviewed the grounding, the shielding, all wires, the jack, switches, and potis. The pickup remained the same.
My guitar got additional shielding lacquer in the cavities of the pickups (and shielding foil in the bottom of the bridge pickups´ cavity), I got a new jack, new switches, new potis, new cables, an additional layer of shielding lacquer
in the electrical compartment, and they exchanged my backplates (the backplate of the electrical compartment has a extended foil area and a stripe of isolation tape at the position of the 5 way selector switch.

They handed me the guitar back after they had been convinced having achieved PRS´ own pretense to quality.

Taking the tune "Looked out of heaven" by Bruno Mars, which is a song supposed to be played by a Strat, I played along with my 513. It´s up to the listener´s ears if it sounds like a Strat.

 

[Maertl513]

Post scriptum: The guy who returned his 513, gave this model a second trial (An other 513 was given to him.). But love was gone (and an unexpected further warranty issue stepped into the light). If I remember the facts right he was allowed to test PRSi (he selected 513, Paul' s Guitar, DGT). They offered him 4 tops, 2 for two guitars of selected alternative one, 2 for two guitars of alternative two. His model selection: 513 and DGT. Up to his decision they built two blue 513s and two blue DGTs.
One of the DGTs had won his heart and stepped into his house and makes him lucky everytime he touches his DGT.

 

[László]

If you want a more Strat-like sound out of a 513, the neck wood matters - a lot.

The best idea for that is to order a new one and get the Artist package, with the optional maple neck and fretboard. Don't underestimate the effect of the neck on tone; it makes a very significant difference. One of the distinguishing tonal characteristics of a Strat is that maple neck!

As to the rosewood neck or fretboard species, I once thought it wasn't a big deal. However, having played more BRW necks in recent years, and living with a few BRW fretboards, I think there's a noticeable difference; the BRW seems to be brighter and more resonant, the IRW darker and warmer, with a softer attack. This isn't to say that one is somehow "better" than the other, it's a matter of what you're going for.

Finally, mahogany necks are still my favorites for balance and character, but I don't generally try to get Strat sounds out of my gear. I will say that the maple neck on my McCarty WL model sounds great, very resonant, and sounds especially good with the pickup coils split.

 

[shinksma]

All this recent chatter about 513s has triggered my GAS for either a 305 or 513.

Les, I like your mention of the all-maple neck. I do think that is very important too.

I have a Strat, maple neck and FB, alder body (IIRC). Plays great. But I'd like to see what a PRS take on that approach results in. A 513 can be ordered all day long and covers the territory quite well as I understand it, but it seems to me an all-maple neck 305 is a great way to also explore that, and have the exact 25.5" scale length of a strat. The 513's "normal" body (maple+hog) is also not a traditional strat ingredient, although the Swamp Ash variant looks tasty.

Umm, thoughts? Another factor is a 305 can be picked up for a fair bit less than a typical 513, but doesn't have the "bling" of the figured maple cap...

This isn't something I'm going to move on right away (unless a great deal lands in my lap), but I do like to gather lots of info as I plan the next purchase.

 

[Maertl513]

I agree. I didn´t bought the 513, because I wanted a Strat-like guitar. I wanted this certain guitar for that reason it allows 13 different voicings from real single coil pickups to humbuckers. And this all gathered in an attractive "container".
I don´t mind open a box. I got a strat type guitar, but I play it seldom. For a few months I suffered from fever that I need a real Tele in my collection (No, more cowbell isn´t the sufficient prescription...). I have a very diverse collection.
My meeting with Paul (and of course Greg Koch) was the highlight of my visit of Musik Messe 2014. But I took the opportunity with this venue approaching to Tele.
Meeting Greg at the Fender booth I stayed at the epicenter of Tele. I spend approx. 2 hours playing several Teles (US made, Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, and so on.), from cheap to expensive. I wasn´t flashed by that singlecoil sound for feeling any G.A.S.
Beside that I don´t like the plain shape of a Tele, I became convinced that I ain´t buying a Tele.
My main guitar is my PRS, followed by my custom made Hollowbody. From time to time I play my Parker Fly, my RG, or the Rudvog.
Due to tonal possibilities I´m absolutely lucky with my 513.

 

[CVS]

Which one sounds more stratty?

I have a 2015 rosewood neck 513 and maple neck Strat & Tele - the 513 does not sound like either one (IMHO - this after playing endlessly with amp / tone and even pedal settings). With that said, the 513 has a great variety of tones and can come close to both a Strat and a Tele. I use the guitar at gigs because it can cover lots of musical territory very well given our band plays a wide variety of music. It is a great guitar! If you want to get as close as you can to a Strat sound I would take the advice of others and at least have your 513 made with a maple neck / fret-board. This would get you closer.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[BALIstic]

Thanks Guys, for all of your responses. I'm definitely inclined to go for the 2014. It's new, and a very appealing colour. Braz RW is obviously a rarity these days but I imagine that in the not too distant future Indian, Honduran,, Madagascan woods will all be equally scarce in guitar building. The Braz wood would only sway me if the 05 was technically a better guitar, No one has stated that to be the case. So I imagine my next NGD will be a Royal Blue 513.

I have Strats /Teles, well and truly covered (actually both of my Tele's have HB, USA Cabronita with TV Jones Filtertrons / Jim Root Tele with EMG's but they both still sound Teleish) but I wanted another PRS Guitar that's a bit of a Swiss Army Knife, one that can do convincing Strat / Tele like tones and really rock out at the same time. Im convinced the 513 definitely fits the bill and is the guitar I should be shopping for.

Seller of both guitars is away till 31/10. I'll keep you posted as to the outcome.

Regards

 

[XiXora]

Looking forward to the pictures…

 

[Maertl513]

The 513 RW are the first run 513s. As one and only guitar model in the world it has been announched in consecutive years as best electric guitar of the year (2005 and 2006).
But through all the years a few optical and technical improvements have been implemented. That said the sound might has changed a little nuance, but the basic principle has been conserved - Swiss Army Knife is a good description.

I still have no regrets having purchased a 513 (MT) in 2011.