2 channel H combo with Creamback speaker? Anyone?

[BlueSky]

I love my 2 channel H combo except for the V30 speaker. That mid-spike on the OD channel is driving me nuts. No matter what setting I use, I can't dial it out. So I'm thinking of swapping the speaker for a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback.
Has anybody tried that speaker with the 2 channel amp? How does it sound? Will it work with a 6L6 amp? Will a 65W speaker be able to take the punch of a 50W amp? I heard the speaker load should be double the amp. On the other hand the V30 has 60W...

 

[Rider1260]

Any speaker will work with a 2 Channel H I have the head with a 2x12 PRS cab with V30s and am very happy, A dumb question have you tried turning down the mids or raising the treble / bass the EQ on the H is very strong IMHO
I am a fan of the Mesa Celestion 90 watt speakers for combo amps ( MC90 I think ) the cream back should also sound great .

 

[BlueSky]

Rider, I tried all sorts of settings, including turning down the Mids. The V30 just doesn't do it for me. It's fairly well-broken in with about 70 hrs of playing time. So I think I'll order an M Creamback. Do you think the 65W is sufficient for a 50W amp? I won't crank the amp but the MVs are at least 12 o'clock or even higher.

 

[Jazzedout]

A simple EQ pedal in the loop might help as well...

 

[BlueSky]

I'm not too keen on having to rely on gadgets like that. That amp should naturally have the tone I like.

 

[AP515]

I recently picked up a 80's slant cab that happened to have G12K-85's in it. Same speaker as the G12K-100's. Does not have the V-30 mids bump. It does however have a massive bass response. If you want metal drop tuning stuff this speaker will shine. I'm not a metal guy though. I like it for the 80's vibe with good bass and clarity.

 

[Woundtight]

I'm not too keen on having to rely on gadgets like that. That amp should naturally have the tone I like.

I agree. The Creamback G12M-65 works well with just about everything I have tried 15, 30, 40, 50W, 6L6, EL34, el84, and it really smooths things out. It doesn't take long to break in, either. When you get one, report back and let us know how it works for you.

 

[BlueSky]

Thanks, will report back once I get the speaker. The only question left: can a 65W speaker handle a 50W amp? MV is about 12 o'clock with a boost pedal in the loop (set fairly low).

 

[Woundtight]

The single Creamback is good with all the 50watters I have tried- Two Rock, Marshall, Bad Cat. I find you can push well beyond the sweet spot of the amp and speaker with no harm.

I think the Creamback will be a big improvement , if that upper mid spike is bothering you, the way it has bothers me. The other thing that seems to help is going to a 2X12, usually much smoother and of course, fuller than a1X12; even with a V30s, it seems to not as spiky. A pair of Creambacks is my ideal speaker config.

 

[BlueSky]

The single Creamback is good with all the 50watters I have tried- Two Rock, Marshall, Bad Cat. I find you can push well beyond the sweet spot of the amp and speaker with no harm.

I think the Creamback will be a big improvement , if that upper mid spike is bothering you, the way it has bothers me. The other thing that seems to help is going to a 2X12, usually much smoother and of course, fuller than a1X12; even with a V30s, it seems to not as spiky. A pair of Creambacks is my ideal speaker config.

Thanks, that was very helpful. I have a combo, which is obviously 1x12 but if I'm happy with the result I might get an extra 1x12 cab. Will report once the speaker is installed.

 

[Tosca]

My favorite lately with my HXDA and Archon has been the G12H-75 creamback. I like the firmer low end with the bigger magnet (vs a 12M greenback which I've also tried). Mixing the 12h75 creamback and a V30 in a 212 is also a good combination.

 

[BlueSky]

My favorite lately with my HXDA and Archon has been the G12H-75 creamback.

Now that's another idea. The Creamback H at 75W would certainly provide the extra watts needed. I see it has 100db sensitivity, so fairly loud. I quite like the tone on this clip (a bit brighter than the M65, but that's a good thing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du5sn1wtZWA

 

[László]

Now that's another idea. The Creamback H at 75W would certainly provide the extra watts needed. I see it has 100db sensitivity, so fairly loud. I quite like the tone on this clip (a bit brighter than the M65, but that's a good thing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du5sn1wtZWA

Actually, the amp provides the watts, the speaker's rating isn't going to increase the amp's wattage, it only states how much wattage the speakers can handle before they blow up. However, a more efficient speaker will be louder with the same amp, as long as the amp puts out the power the speaker is rated at.

Sensitivity of a speaker is usually measured in how many db the speaker produces with one watt of power. It'll be a little louder than the 65 at one watt with a 1Khz tone in an anechoic chamber in a lab.

But the speaker's efficiency in the real world also depends on the cab it's installed in (a sealed closed back cab makes a speaker less efficient due to the air pressure inside the cab, an open back cab is a more efficient setup but dissipates the sound and reflections from the back of the cab can cancel out various frequencies depending on speaker placement in the room, etc), and of course every speaker presents a different load to the amp at various frequencies. So these specs have to be interpreted with that in mind. Different amps react differently to a speaker load, too, due to things like the amp's damping factor.

So a speaker that's more efficient and louder at 1 watt with a 1Khz tone can be quieter at, say 500 Hz, and much louder at 2000 Hz, as an example. This is why some speakers sound more scooped, or more spiky, or have more or less bass, when connected to the same amp.

Remember, too, that guitar speakers distort a great deal. If you have a 50 watt amp, there's no measurement on a spec sheet of how much volume the speaker delivers before it starts to break up with more than one watt. Speaker breakup will tend to affect the ultimate volume of the cab, and they all break up at different power levels.

In other words, speaker spec sheets can fool ya. Being part of a system (i.e., amplifier, cabinet, speaker), the various parts of the system have a huge effect on one another.

 

[DHW]

I ran a 65w creamback in a marshall 40w combo, never flinched. You'll be fine. You have a 60w speaker in there now. I much prefer the 65w version to the 75w version. It is 65w RMS... The peak power rating is generally double the RMS rating so even if the PRS specs are RMS(the wording points towards 50w RMS and 100w peak). In any case, you will be just fine.

Keep in mind this wide open, everything on 11 to get that kind of power out of the amp.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I went through this same thing with my H. Loved the cleans, but didn't "love" the gain channel with the V30s. Plugged it into a 1x12 with Eminence Private Jack (their take on a greenback, but handles 50 watts) and the H sounded killer! I was as far as telling Jim I'd order two new Scumbacks (H/M combo) to put in the PRS cab. Then I bought the Custom for the additional features, and between the Resonance and mid shift features, I can tune it much more to my liking with the V30s... but it still sounds better with the PJ cab.

Main consideration here is what tone you want. The 65 is an M and the 75 is an H. The H speakers have more top and bottom and are often described as scooped. Many people suggested I just add 1 H type first, to mix with one of the V30s. But in a combo, you're all in with one speaker so without the ability to mix two to taste, you have to pick the right one. If you want the Greenback type tone, I'd suggest a Scumback which you can get in 75 or 100 watt model, or the 65 model Creamback.

 

[BlueSky]

Funny you should mention Scumback. I asked Jim for his advice and now I've ended up with a J75 100w. Right between the M and H magnet. It's on order and should hopefully arrive next week.

 

[László]

Funny you should mention Scumback. I asked Jim for his advice and now I've ended up with a J75 100w. Right between the M and H magnet. It's on order and should hopefully arrive next week.

Tone reportage will be needed! And clips! We love clips!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Yeah, I'd like to hear how you like the J. Jim and I discussed it and my preference for Greenback-ish tone, and he suggested the M/H combo, rather than two M's. The 2x12 gives you the ability to mix and match to taste and he felt it would add depth to the M tone. If the J sits in the middle, it might be just right for a combo.

 

[The Fight]

Hey man I love the cream backs H, my favorite speakers. I'd take them over vintage 30s any day. But then again it is a taste. My buddy swears by 30s but to me, the highs hurt my ears. I never use eq, and also love the natural soundof a non eq amp. you'll really like the tone on the creamback, trust me!

 

[BlueSky]

Hey man I love the cream backs H, my favorite speakers. I'd take them over vintage 30s any day. But then again it is a taste. My buddy swears by 30s but to me, the highs hurt my ears. I never use eq, and also love the natural soundof a non eq amp. you'll really like the tone on the creamback, trust me!

I eventually went for the Scumback J75 at 100w. Sits between the M and H magnet. Will report when it arrives.