1986 pickups vs new ones

[sammich]

I have a 1986 PRS custom 24 with the rotary selector and sweet switch. I think the pickups on mine are different than the ones today. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, any comments on the differences? Also, does my rotary do the same thing (as far as coil tapping, phase, pickup selected, etc) as the current 5-way toggle switch?

I ask because I've listened to some of the you tube sound demos of current models and hear sounds I want to get, but haven't been able to obtain. If everything is the same I'll just keep trying, but if not, no need to keep beating my head against that wall! (The amps I'm using are a 1971 Fender Princeton Reverb, and a Seymour Duncan convertible 1200)

Lastly, trying to register for this forum I had to go through more than once. The secret question I failed was what is the most common inlay (insert?) for PRS guitars. I thought it was birds.... but I was WRONG!!! I have half moons on mine, but can somebody tell me the answer?

Thanks all!

 

[AP515]

You're not going to get modern sounds from that 86. The sweet switch takes the place of the tone pot and isn't as variable as a tone pot will be. The pickups are different. They will most likely be T&B's and while I like the tone from them, many people changed them in their vintage PRSi. Deserved or not, early PRS pickups have the reputation of being the weak link in an otherwise fantastic guitar. Because of it's value as a vintage guitar I would suggest not changing it, but finding another PRS that you like. Then you will have the best of both old and new PRS.

 

[gush]

I think the middle of a rotary is two single coils and the middle of the blade is two Humbuckers. Can't remember if the other positions are different.

 

[kingsleyd]

The pickups in the '86, which are the early "Treble & Bass" models, are very different from anything PRS is winding nowadays. And there have been a lot of steps along the way. So that's the first thing.

Second: the five-way rotary wiring evolved over time as well. It always had the solo neck ("bass") and bridge ("treble") pickups at either end of the rotation, but the three sounds in between varied over time. In most iterations, two of the positions were combinations of either the inner or outer coils of the two pickups, in phase and out of phase. The other position was a few different sounds over time. I haven't played many modern C24s and I'm not sure I've ever played one with a five-way lever, so I don't know what the modern five options are.

edit: just checked the PRS site; the combinations are neck humbucker only, neck single coil with bridge single coil, neck and bridge, neck single coil with bridge humbucker, bridge humbucker only. those are cool and useful combinations but very different from what's on any 1986

Third: the guitars themselves, as well as the component parts, have evolved quite a bit.

If I had an '86 (which I do, actually) I'd be inclined to keep it as is because it's relatively valuable and they are, in their own way, cool and unique instruments. But I'd probably want to have a new one as well because in a lot of ways the newer ones are much, much better guitars. (I have several newer PRSi, but no Custom 24s)

 

[sammich]

I had written PRS back in the '90s about the pick-ups and rotary switch. They sent an explanation that cleared things up about as well as naming something (that has nothing to do with taste) a "sweet switch." I had looked at the modern site and was pretty sure that things had changed, so wondered if anyone knew exactly what was going on at the different switch positions in the early days (1986).

I had never heard the pick-ups called "treble" and "bass". Is this in the windings? or are they the same, but just in different positions? I'll admit that the sound bites I've listened to that used the newer elecronics sounded more versatile than mine.

I have no intention of changing out the PuPs, or anything else for that matter. Just trying to find out a little more about this instrument as is.

 

[kingsleyd]

I think that the designation "treble" and "bass" comes from vernacular Paul Smith probably absorbed in his younger days to differentiate the two pickups, and yes, PRS have always wound pickups differently for the bridge and neck positions. In general, the bridge pickups are wound hotter than the neck pickups. Part of the reason for that is simple physics: the string deflection is greater at the neck pickup position than at the bridge position. If the pickups are wound the same, the bridge pickup can sound too thin and twangy. Of course that depends a bit on what else is going on -- and how close to the strings you can put the pickup without causing other problems. But the early PRS Custom recipe, with a pretty thin body compared to a Les Paul, is inherently a somewhat thin-sounding guitar. I'm sure they voiced the pickups (then and now) to compensate for that to some degree.

The "sweet" switch is so-named because it "sweetens" the tone by rolling off a bit of high end. Having a tone control in the circuit has an impact on the overall tone of the guitar even when it's all the way on 10, which is why some guitar players choose to eliminate the tone control entirely. (hey you can always deal with excess high end at the amplifier end of the cable, ya know?!?) I'm sure that was part of PRS' thinking back then.

 

[ADP]

If you look at this schematic, you'll see that the first version of the rotary switch had positions for the bridge humbucker, both humbuckers out of phase, both humbuckers in phase, both slug coils and neck humbucker. Three of the combinations stayed the same in the next two versions and the current blade switch has four sounds in common with the original rotary that you have.

 

[sammich]

Thanks ADP. That's EXACTLY what I was looking for. As they say... a picture is worth a thousand words (or in this case, something I can look at and understand). And yes, kingsleyd, that makes sense out of the "sweet switch", too. I always leave my tone pots fully up anyway, and I had heard that they color the tone even then, so having what essentially is an on / off high cut filter makes sense for the purists.

As far as treble / bass pickups go, I don't know the henries on mine, but measured through a 10' cord in 60 degree room I got 7.47k at the neck, and 9.35k at the bridge

I bought the guitar in the first place for its versatility, and it still fills the bill in that sense. That PRS guitars became more desirable after that point turned out to just be a bonus!

 

[kingsleyd]

Thanks, ADP! I didn't dig hard enough to find that on the PRS site. My bad.

FWIW, my own '86 has a factory-original custom wiring scheme which happens to be a great fit for me. It has a tone control (which I have always considered essential, although I'm evolving to a place where I don't use it nearly as much... ...hearing loss mebbe?!? or just less afraid of treble?), and the wiring on the rotary is:

10: treble humbucker
9: treble humbucker with sweet switch engaged
8: series single coils (I don't know whether it's the screw coils or the slug coils)
7: parallel single coils (ditto)
6: bass humbucker

I don't mind the slight loss of high-end from having a tone control -- those old T&B pickups have no shortage of high end -- and all five positions are very usable for me. In particular, the series single-coil setting with those early T&B pickups is an absolutely hellacious-sounding Phat Strat thing. Sometimes all you really need out of a guitar is one absolutely killer sound, and with that guitar it's that #8 position on the five-way. :rock: