Which Tubes In Your HX/DA???

squirrel211

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Anybody? Les?

MOST IMPORTANT: Which EL34's have been the most reliable?

SECONDARY: Which have sounded the fattest through the mids/low mids? Softest in the highs?

I have never had good luck with EL34's, except for a set of Svetlanas that I put into an amp back in 1997.
 
My 50 and 30 have had the stock EL 34 tubes only (Winged C). A lot of folks feel they're the best modern EL34s but they've stopped making them. I do like them and have had zero problems.

The JJ preamp tubes have been variable in quality, I've replaced a couple. But I haven't done any tube rolling with my HXDA on the theory "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

i plan lane to experiment a little this fall with some NOS Mullards,, but right now I'm not allowed to lift the amp, etc. because it weighs more than 20 pounds.
 
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My 50 and 30 have had the stock EL 34 tubes only (Winged C). A lot of folks feel they're the best modern EL34s but they've stopped making them. I do like them and have had zero problems.

The JJ preamp tubes have been variable in quality, I've replaced a couple. But I haven't done any tube rolling with my HXDA on the theory "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

i plan lane to experiment a little this fall with some NOS Mullards,, but right now I'm not allowed to lift the amp, etc. because it weighs more than 20 pounds.

Thanks Les!

I seem to be pretty hard on EL34 variants; I'm going through them like late night snacks in 2 different amps. I am starting to think that getting some tested NOS Mullards may actually save me money in the long run! I can't find any 90's Svetlanas.

These EL34's really do sound great though!
 
When I bought my used HX/DA 50 watt head(manufactured May 2011), in June 2014, it had a pair of non original EL34's.(Forgot to write down what they were, no matter) because they had so many hours with the amp running hot and dime'd(like all HX/DAs should run, if possible), the amp sounded like it: No oomph. So we went to the Tubestore(This company got the best reviews from their customers and this specific tube set) and bought what they called a 'Matched pair' of 'Made in Russia' labeled Mullard EL34's set/balanced the Tube Bias with a DVM: Night and Day difference. Can't justify buying/experimenting with expensive boutique tubes; just a hobbyist on a budget and couldn't hear the difference anyway.
 
Wow! I haven't had to replace mine yet, I must be pretty easy on tubes.

Which EL34s have you been using?

I burned a Sino up the first chord I played when I picked up a hotrodded M variety, then burned up 2 more of those over the proceeding 6 months. Then I popped a couple new tubes in another new amp that I got recently; an old EH EL34G that sounded pretty sweet, and yesterday a new Tung Sol.

Back in late 90's I burned up a couple Sovtek tubes before I bought a quad of Svetlana EL34's for a 2210 head that I had then. They sounded great and lasted for years until a band member knocked the head off of the cabinet AND stage during a show at Terrapin Station in College Park, MD.

I just ordered some Mullard reissues, but I'm hunting down some Svetlanas from a reputable dealer. Not the new ones, some NOS ones from the St Petersburg factory. I may start checking into other tube types for this new amp, like 6CA7's or KT66/77

EL34's seem to be really fragile!
 
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When I bought my used HX/DA 50 watt head(manufactured May 2011), in June 2014, it had a pair of non original EL34's.(Forgot to write down what they were, no matter) because they had so many hours with the amp running hot and dime'd(like all HX/DAs should run, if possible), the amp sounded like it: No oomph. So we went to the Tubestore(This company got the best reviews from their customers and this specific tube set) and bought what they called a 'Matched pair' of 'Made in Russia' labeled Mullard EL34's set/balanced the Tube Bias with a DVM: Night and Day difference. Can't justify buying/experimenting with expensive boutique tubes; just a hobbyist on a budget and couldn't hear the difference anyway.

I just did that exact same thing!!!
 
EL34's seem to be really fragile!

Only the junky ones! The good ones aren't fragile at all, and last for years.

The old Sinos were the worst of the worst. Very prone to failure.

The Winged Cs that the HXDAs were factory equipped with are in fact SED Winged Cs made in the St. Petersburg Svetlana factory. A different company called New Sensor bought the rights to the Svetlana name marketing, at some point, so SED changed the name to Winged C to be able to market them independently.

The ones currently marked Svetlana aren't as good, in my opinion, they aren't as rich sounding on the low end.

The Winged Cs are in fact very good tubes, and still available on the tube market, though at somewhat higher prices than other recent tubes. If you get them, be sure not to buy from certain vendors who are selling factory seconds. The tube store has an explanation that they only bought firsts, so I'd buy from them.

I can't speak to the Russian Mullard-labeled EL34s. Obviously, they aren't made by Mullard, England, a company that only exists now in name. However, if you want to get very spendy, the original English Mullard EL-34s are available NOS if you look hard enough. Millard often rebranded their tubes for other manufacturers, so many are branded RCA, Phillips, Siemens, Valvo, GE, etc.

The NOS Mullard EL34s last for a very long time, and often have fewer problems than new tubes. Back in the day, players expected their tubes to last a long time. The idea of changing tubes every six months or every year was unheard-of. You ran your tubes until they stopped working or sounded horrible, and that took quite some time!

As an aside, I had 1 1/2 years on my Winged Cs in my HXDA50, and they still sounded fresh. I ran the amp loud. On my current HXDA30, it's only a few months old, but so far, so good. I run it wide open as well.
 
Well, it also depends on the amp -- some amps are hard on tubes -- maybe they don't condition the power supply sufficiently, and let spikes and brownouts through. I guess it also depends on how junky the electricity is in your neighborhood.
 
Back in the day, players expected their tubes to last a long time. The idea of changing tubes every six months or every year was unheard-of. You ran your tubes until they stopped working or sounded horrible, and that took quite some time!
Yep. Tubes in early '70s amps that you bought used in the '80s lasted for years of gigging! It wasn't until the '90s that I had to replace power tubes with any regularity. Everyone blamed the Chinese back then. If you can find them...and afford them...NOS tubes are a worthy investment.

Fyi, even in my Boogie MkIII, I have had to replace tubes. They are (in)famous for cold-bias'ing their amps, which is much easier in the power tubes. But the power tubes still deplete at an alarming rate, despite the lower voltage. The quality is just poo now.
 
The quality is just poo now.

So true. One of the issues is that the machinery that was used to create tubes has gotten so old that the tolerances aren't what they once were, but a big issue is that the guys who were designing both the tubes and the equipment and processes to make them, aren't around any more.

A lot of knowledge has simply not been passed along to the next generation.

It's interesting - not many folks know that what we think of as vacuum tubes were really developed during World War One, where battlefield radios first became necessary. That led to the development of table radios and radio consoles in the 1920s, that were the first real consumer application for amplifiers and speakers. It's why the RCA radio guides became staples of the early amp designers.

So 100 years after the beginning of WWI, we're dealing with essentially remnants of the high technology that reached its high point in the late 50s/early 60s, and then virtually stopped except for guitar amps and a few hi-fi enthusiasts. It blows me away that tube technology as "state of the art" really was only a 40 year phenomenon in our history.
 
So true. One of the issues is that the machinery that was used to create tubes has gotten so old that the tolerances aren't what they once were, but a big issue is that the guys who were designing both the tubes and the equipment and processes to make them, aren't around any more.

A lot of knowledge has simply not been passed along to the next generation.

It's interesting - not many folks know that what we think of as vacuum tubes were really developed during World War One, where battlefield radios first became necessary. That led to the development of table radios and radio consoles in the 1920s, that were the first real consumer application for amplifiers and speakers. It's why the RCA radio guides became staples of the early amp designers.

So 100 years after the beginning of WWI, we're dealing with essentially remnants of the high technology that reached its high point in the late 50s/early 60s, and then virtually stopped except for guitar amps and a few hi-fi enthusiasts. It blows me away that tube technology as "state of the art" really was only a 40 year phenomenon in our history.

It makes you really wonder what will become of the tube amp in the next 50 years! If the tube tolerances/quality control continue to diminish as quickly as they have over the last 20 years, we may all be scrambling for modelers 20 years from now! Your $$$$ tube amp will be nothing more that a pretty door stop if you can't get tubes that last longer than 3 power cycles.

I was just reading where some batches of tubes were experiencing 90% failure rates at testing!!!!!!!
 
It makes you really wonder what will become of the tube amp in the next 50 years! If the tube tolerances/quality control continue to diminish as quickly as they have over the last 20 years, we may all be scrambling for modelers 20 years from now! Your $$$$ tube amp will be nothing more that a pretty door stop if you can't get tubes that last longer than 3 power cycles.

I was just reading where some batches of tubes were experiencing 90% failure rates at testing!!!!!!!

I think you'll see tubes still being made for the guitar market, maybe even halfway decent ones, but I'll be so old I'll be in diapers with a drool cup. My son and his friends love tube amps though, and I believe the niche market will carry on.

then again, the world may move on to accordion bands...
 
Well, no, you said "guitar tube amps" -- that's hardly a niche market.

I wasn't referring to the amps with my comment about a niche market. I was referring to the tubes. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Tubes today are made for audiophiles and guitar amps. There isn't the electronics market for these things that there once was. When I was a kid, everything from car radios to TVs to hi fis to aircraft electronics to computers to medical/scientific equipment to regular old record players were tube devices, and of course there were many more applications I didn't list.

I wish I could go back in time to my childhood, when drugstores sold tubes and had big tube testing machines. Every drugstore and hardware store had shelf upon shelf of hundreds of boxes of tubes, by RCA, GE, etc., etc. right through the late 60s. These began to disappear as solid state devices took over the world.

But would I ever stock up!

Incidentally, a random look at the Guitar Center website reveals many more models of solid state guitar amps than tube amps. I never woulda thunk it.

I'm now having a vision of an apocalyptic future like Beyond the Thunderdome where instead of people scavenging and fighting over gasoline, they're having little wars over the scraps and remnants of vacuum tubes to power their guitar amps. The audiophiles wouldn't stand a chance. Legions of guitar guys on motorcycles wearing football shoulder pads with spikes on them would descend on every old tube device in every garbage dump in the world.
 
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Have you guys tried the Gold Lion EL 34 variant? Well made, very rugged and long lasting. Upscale Audio has them and they are in the same range as the winged c, electro-harmonix and others. About $25 dollars each or five dollars more if you want a matched set. Have had good luck with thee guys in the past for audio tubes like Ampherex and tung so l's.
 
Have you guys tried the Gold Lion EL 34 variant? Well made, very rugged and long lasting. Upscale Audio has them and they are in the same range as the winged c, electro-harmonix and others. About $25 dollars each or five dollars more if you want a matched set. Have had good luck with thee guys in the past for audio tubes like Ampherex and tung so l's.

Could you describe their tone and feel in relation to other specific brands of EL34?

I am gunning for chewy/spongy feel, with a rich mid content (upper AND lower) with a somewhat limited bass response and smooth top end. I'm NOT looking for aggressive tones. Also, are you using these tubes in a Super Lead / 1959 / 1987 style circuit?
 
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