Tube dealers?

[bodia]

So, I'm looking to make my first tube purchase, a set of preamp tubes for my HXDA. Total newb in this area, but I am looking to go the NOS route. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with Brent Jessee Recording & Supply (audiotubes.com)?

Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated (I've already read through the "Let Me Roll It" and a couple of other threads here). I would say price isn't a consideration, but that wouldn't be entirely true.

Thanks in advance.

 

[László]

I've used Tube Depot and The Tube Store, and there's a hi fi dealer in Canada whose name I can't recall that stocks NOS BRIMAR and some Mullards I've had good luck with.

The classic preamp tube for a Marshall style amp is the Mullard 12AX7.

For my HXDA, I recently bought an NOS Mullard 12AX7 for V1 at Tube Depot, as well as some gold pin JJs for the other positions, all checked for noise and microphonics for an extra couple of bucks. Worked out perfectly, and gave me exactly what I was looking for - a very quiet, but phenomenal sounding, warm, buttery tone. I've found that the V1 position has the most sonic effect.

I see that they now have the military version of the Mullard 12 AX7s, I was able to snag a Mullard-labeled tube that wasn't for military applications, but I'm not sure there's a sonic difference. I know this gets debated a lot, and there are versions of Mullards that are claimed to be this or that, but I've got military versions of the BRIMAR 12 AX7 box plates in my DG30, and they sound great.

I also have a set of NOS Siemens EL34s for the HXDA, but I'm waiting to put them in until the Winged Cs that came in the amp need to be replaced.

Happy hunting!

 

[daveyisgreat]

I had a very bad experience with Brent Jessee Recording & Supply (audiotubes.com). I do not recommend them.

 

[bodia]

I've used Tube Depot and The Tube Store, and there's a hi fi dealer in Canada whose name I can't recall that stocks NOS BRIMAR and some Mullards I've had good luck with.

The classic preamp tube for a Marshall style amp is the Mullard 12AX7.

For my HXDA, I recently bought an NOS Mullard 12AX7 for V1 at Tube Depot, as well as some gold pin JJs for the other positions, all checked for noise and microphonics for an extra couple of bucks. Worked out perfectly, and gave me exactly what I was looking for - a very quiet, but phenomenal sounding, warm, buttery tone. I've found that the V1 position has the most sonic effect.

I see that they now have the military version of the Mullard 12 AX7s, I was able to snag a Mullard-labeled tube that wasn't for military applications, but I'm not sure there's a sonic difference. I know this gets debated a lot, and there are versions of Mullards that are claimed to be this or that, but I've got military versions of the BRIMAR 12 AX7 box plates in my DG30, and they sound great.

I also have a set of NOS Siemens EL34s for the HXDA, but I'm waiting to put them in until the Winged Cs that came in the amp need to be replaced.

Happy hunting!

Thanks for the info Les. As always, valuable and appreciated.

I had a very bad experience with Brent Jessee Recording & Supply (audiotubes.com). I do not recommend them.

Thanks for this too. Bummed about it though. They're a 45 minute drive from home, and closer if I happen to be working from the office. I was hoping to spin by and pick something up the old fashioned way....in person.

 

[DHW]

I wouldn't be scared buying anything from a business in person because you can walk away before getting the shaft... I like buying local.

 

[Whitecat]

I guess you're in the US so this info may be of limited value but I use Watford Vaves here in the UK. They frequently get small allocations of really interesting NOS stuff and also stock all the mainstays plus cryo treated stuff etc.... they've been a good supplier for me.

 

[bodia]

Thanks all for your replies. Appreciated. Just one more thing to add to the convo: I get that Mullard's are considered to be very good for tone. Any one have any experience with Mazda tubes? Generally speaking, how perceptible is the tone between some of these NOS brands? How much difference is there between a Mullard and a Telefunken (the 2 that I see most often mentioned)?

Thanks again for bearing with me.

 

[László]

Thanks all for your replies. Appreciated. Just one more thing to add to the convo: I get that Mullard's are considered to be very good for tone. Any one have any experience with Mazda tubes? Generally speaking, how perceptible is the tone between some of these NOS brands? How much difference is there between a Mullard and a Telefunken (the 2 that I see most often mentioned)?

Thanks again for bearing with me.

I've had some NOS Telefunken Smooth Plates, some RCA black plates, some NOS Phillips, some NOS BRIMAR, some NOS GE, and a few others as well as NOS Mullards, but not a Mazda tube.

The Telefunkens are IMHO better as hi-fi and microphone tubes. The breakup is a little too soon, and maybe a bit crackly for my taste, in a guitar amp. The BRIMARS are great in the DG30, less so in the HXDA (just my opinion). RCAs and GEs seem wonderful in Fender style amps, and they sounded great in my Two-Rocks. So did the Phillips NOS glass.

So far, I like the Mullards best in HXDAs. Sometimes traditional is traditional because it's great sounding, ya know?

 

[bodia]

I've had some NOS Telefunken Smooth Plates, some RCA black plates, some NOS Phillips, some NOS BRIMAR, some NOS GE, and a few others as well as NOS Mullards, but not a Mazda tube.

The Telefunkens are IMHO better as hi-fi and microphone tubes. The breakup is a little too soon, and maybe a bit crackly for my taste, in a guitar amp. The BRIMARS are great in the DG30, less so in the HXDA (just my opinion). RCAs and GEs seem wonderful in Fender style amps, and they sounded great in my Two-Rocks. So did the Phillips NOS glass.

So far, I like the Mullards best in HXDAs. Sometimes traditional is traditional because it's great sounding, ya know?

Many thanks. This helps steer my decision making process.

 

[LJD]

I had a very bad experience with Brent Jessee Recording & Supply (audiotubes.com). I do not recommend them.

Hmm. I have had great success with Brent. (NOS Tung Sol Blackplates, RCA's, Mullard, GE's). I always was able to get him on the phone to educate me about tubes. Offers good testing. Also has a reasonable 30 day return policy.

 

[bodia]

Hmm. I have had great success with Brent. (NOS Tung Sol Blackplates, RCA's, Mullard, GE's). I always was able to get him on the phone to educate me about tubes. Offers good testing. Also has a reasonable 30 day return policy.

Thanks for the input. I did a little poking this afternoon. He's got a great BBB rating, and I could only find one negative review (in two different places). He doesn't do a storefront, so no in person buying even though I'm so close. May check him out just because though. Old school website, but lots of good info there.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

There tends to be people who much prefer certain brands (and years and factories &c.) NOS tubes...and then there tends to be people like me, who can't afford to repopulate tube amps that often at those prices. There's a part of me that wants the best, because I can certainly hear some differences, but I am also of the school of thought that compromising quite a bit on price equates to compromising only a little bit on sound. There's a point of diminishing returns that is unfortunately quite individual -- everyone hears differently, so the point at which you hear less of a difference (it's not even a point, it's more like an asymptotic curve) at which point you should stop spending more money is different for every person.

Here's the trick, though -- don't get carried away -- don't horde. Get one or two sets, and live with them for a while, decide if you want to spend more or less the next iteration.

The other problem is, don't get sucked into the NLNOS (no longer new, old stock) market (aka eBay and Audiogon). A lot of people buy tubes they can barely afford, listen to them for an hour, then resell them. Not all of them are honest as to the life left in them (not all of them know). If you do, you need to find reputable resellers who will be honest and have taken measurements.

I honestly have no idea how to do that, other than by starting a thread and asking, as you are doing here. So I'm probably not telling you anything you didn't already know.

 

[bodia]

There tends to be people who much prefer certain brands (and years and factories &c.) NOS tubes...and then there tends to be people like me, who can't afford to repopulate tube amps that often at those prices. There's a part of me that wants the best, because I can certainly hear some differences, but I am also of the school of thought that compromising quite a bit on price equates to compromising only a little bit on sound. There's a point of diminishing returns that is unfortunately quite individual -- everyone hears differently, so the point at which you hear less of a difference (it's not even a point, it's more like an asymptotic curve) at which point you should stop spending more money is different for every person.

Here's the trick, though -- don't get carried away -- don't horde. Get one or two sets, and live with them for a while, decide if you want to spend more or less the next iteration.

The other problem is, don't get sucked into the NLNOS (no longer new, old stock) market (aka eBay and Audiogon). A lot of people buy tubes they can barely afford, listen to them for an hour, then resell them. Not all of them are honest as to the life left in them (not all of them know). If you do, you need to find reputable resellers who will be honest and have taken measurements.

I honestly have no idea how to do that, other than by starting a thread and asking, as you are doing here. So I'm probably not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Very good points Dusty. Thanks. I'll tread lightly in this endeavor though. Willpower and me don't get along, which is why I don't go to casinos. I already know how that scenario will end. I don't need one more costly hobby to suck me in. Especially because I'm a hack!

 

[László]

There's a point of diminishing returns that is unfortunately quite individual -- everyone hears differently, so the point at which you hear less of a difference (it's not even a point, it's more like an asymptotic curve) at which point you should stop spending more money is different for every person.

I agree, there's a point of diminishing returns, and we're talking subtle details with much of this, though there are times that an NOS tube will make a very noticeable difference - it certainly was noticeable with my HXDA, and made the amp sound better.

Here's one good thing: a good preamp tube lasts a very long time, even when you use it every day. Assuming you get a good NOS tube, it'll probably last as long as the amp - which is why it pays to have the tube tested for noise and microphonics. Obviously, even good preamp tubes can develop problems, but they're more unusual with NOS than new production.

As an example, when I sold my '67 Blackface Fender Bassman, I'd used it hard for years, and after more than a decade, it still had the original preamp tubes - - and the original power tubes! And it still sounded great (I was lucky with the power tubes).

Output tubes wear much, much faster. Chances are you're re-tubing your preamp tubes because you want to vary the sound, or because one of the stock tubes went bad?

The V1 is the tube position that has the most effect on the tone. Keep your good tubes, and put the best ones in the other positions, and just replace the V1 and you'll maximize your dough. Modern preamp tubes tested for noise and microphonics are not expensive, and are also a pretty solid buy.

It's also not a bad thing to mix NOS and modern tubes. Doug Sewell did it with the run of the first 20 DG30 amps (I have one), that included the BRIMARs in V1 and V3, and JJs in the other two positions.

So - again, assuming it's a good tube - NOS preamp tubes aren't such a bad way to blow your dough, and you can add them one at a time to spread the cost out.

 

[bodia]

I agree, there's a point of diminishing returns, and we're talking subtle details with much of this, though there are times that an NOS tube will make a very noticeable difference - it certainly was noticeable with my HXDA, and made the amp sound better.

Here's one good thing: a good preamp tube lasts a very long time, even when you use it every day. Assuming you get a good NOS tube, it'll probably last as long as the amp - which is why it pays to have the tube tested for noise and microphonics. Obviously, even good preamp tubes can develop problems, but they're more unusual with NOS than new production.

As an example, when I sold my '67 Blackface Fender Bassman, I'd used it hard for years, and after more than a decade, it still had the original preamp tubes - - and the original power tubes! And it still sounded great (I was lucky with the power tubes).

Output tubes wear much, much faster. Chances are you're re-tubing your preamp tubes because you want to vary the sound, or because one of the stock tubes went bad?

The V1 is the tube position that has the most effect on the tone. Keep your good tubes, and put the best ones in the other positions, and just replace the V1 and you'll maximize your dough. Modern preamp tubes tested for noise and microphonics are not expensive, and are also a pretty solid buy.

It's also not a bad thing to mix NOS and modern tubes. Doug Sewell did it with the run of the first 20 DG30 amps (I have one), that included the BRIMARs in V1 and V3, and JJs in the other two positions.

So - again, assuming it's a good tube - NOS preamp tubes aren't such a bad way to blow your dough, and you can add them one at a time to spread the cost out.

Thanks again sir. You are correct, I am looking to "improve" the tone. I've had this HXDA for a couple of months, and love it. But, the last couple of weeks it's just sounds shrill to me, and has a little hiss. Not terrible, just not as good as prior. I haven't changed anything, or done anything different in that time period either. It's from 2013, and I bought it used and I don't know how it was treated/used/abused. No torn tolex, or grille cloth, or anything like that. So, I'm just looking to make some tweaks, I guess. I pulled the back off while I was in the midst of a morning long conference call. Tubes appear to be original. Two Winged C's in the power and 3 JJ's in the pre. Now that I have the back off, I haven't been able to fire it up today to tap some tubes, maybe tonight.

 

[bodia]

Hmm. I have had great success with Brent. (NOS Tung Sol Blackplates, RCA's, Mullard, GE's). I always was able to get him on the phone to educate me about tubes. Offers good testing. Also has a reasonable 30 day return policy.

I talked with him on the phone this afternoon. Very knowledgeable, helpful, and patient. He took his time to answer all of my rookie questions, and explained the differences in the tonal characters of the tubes I was interested in. In my mind, I knew what I was going to order unless I heard something that would sway my decision. Ended up going with a matched set of Mullards for the power and a threesome of 60's Mullards for the pre. As long as everything ships fine, and they turn out to be fine, I would recommend him, and use him again.

Just an aside, for curiosity's sake, I emailed Customer Service asking for their recommendations on NOS tubes for the 30w HXDA assuming price was not an option. They suggested Seimens RFT EL34 and Ei 12ax7

 

[László]

Just an aside, for curiosity's sake, I emailed Customer Service asking for their recommendations on NOS tubes for the 30w HXDA assuming price was not an option. They suggested Seimens RFT EL34 and Ei 12ax7

The Siemens are what I bought for mine (Not 100% sure mine are RFT made or W. German at this point), haven't installed them because what I have are still new tubes (Winged C).

RFT means they were East German versions, as Siemens stopped making tubes in W. Germany around 1980.

 

[vchizzle]

I talked with him on the phone this afternoon. Very knowledgeable, helpful, and patient. He took his time to answer all of my rookie questions, and explained the differences in the tonal characters of the tubes I was interested in. In my mind, I knew what I was going to order unless I heard something that would sway my decision. Ended up going with a matched set of Mullards for the power and a threesome of 60's Mullards for the pre. As long as everything ships fine, and they turn out to be fine, I would recommend him, and use him again.

Just an aside, for curiosity's sake, I emailed Customer Service asking for their recommendations on NOS tubes for the 30w HXDA assuming price was not an option. They suggested Seimens RFT EL34 and Ei 12ax7

My limited experience with Ei is they tend to be a bit brash and more prone to noise. I had 2 at one point, I think I still have 1. They've never stayed in an amp very long. If I can find it, I could send it down to you.

 

[bodia]

My limited experience with Ei is they tend to be a bit brash and more prone to noise. I had 2 at one point, I think I still have 1. They've never stayed in an amp very long. If I can find it, I could send it down to you.

You can hang onto it. I sent the HXDA to toothace this week. He got it yesterday. Although, I do still have the Archon. Send away! Or stick by the Sun Prairie exit and I'll pick it up next month!

 

[vchizzle]

You can hang onto it. I sent the HXDA to toothace this week. He got it yesterday. Although, I do still have the Archon. Send away! Or stick by the Sun Prairie exit and I'll pick it up next month!

I live real close to that exit, so if you drive slow enough I can toss it in your window. Or stop in for a beverage!