The Psychology of Guitar

I think we put too much though on how we SHOULD play rather than just letting our creativity flow and show what we're capable of. My guitar teacher once said to use theory to bring out your creativity instead of ignoring it
Not disagreeing, but IMO, again, it depends on your objective. If you want to learn to play like Di Meola or Yngwie, then TONS of practice and proper technique are "required." But, you don't need to know theory to play their stuff. You need SKILLS to play their stuff. When people start talking about theory I glaze. Too late for me to learn that and I have no reason to want to at this point. In other words, if I hear something and I want to play it, I figure it's SKILLS that will let me play it. And either I have them, or I don't and if I don't, I can practice it and get it. But it's not "lack of theory or knowledge" that will ever keep me from playing something I want to play. But that is not the case for everyone.

I didn't say this before because I know it's a bit controversial but I think that to a large degree, you are either born with a certain innate musical ability, or you aren't. If you are born with it, I think it all comes easier to you because you know what sounds good, what sounds right, what notes to play... Everyone here knows someone who sings out of tune, and doesn't KNOW that they're signing out of tune. They just don't "hear Jimi." :) When I started playing, I had friends who had played for 4-5 years and practiced hours every day and never got very good. One did get good but he was obsessed... and had no other hobbies to distract him. He played for 4-6 hours every day in high school. Yet he'd come to me to show me a new song he'd learned and he'd be playing a couple notes wrong in a solo and he wouldn't know it. I'd hear it immediately. I'd tell him, and then he'd go "oh yeah, that is right." But he'd practiced it HOURS without realizing he was missing those two notes in the solo. I just think some people "have it" and some don't. And, if you have it, you have a big advantage. If you don't, you might end up being a great player, but you might hit a wall well before that. A level where you are "solid" can play the tunes, etc. but you don't really "feel" it the same. I also have a buddy who is like that. I swear if you took his music away in the middle of a song he'd been playing for 5 years, he couldn't finish the song. But leave it there and he'll play the rhythm part perfectly. He NEEDS the music in front of him. This is going to get boring again... LOL When I played with him the first time we were at his house. He was introducing me to a new band I'd never heard. He put the CD on and I grabbed one of his guitars and started playing along. He stopped the CD to say "I thought you had never heard this before." He couldn't fathom hearing the first verse and jumping in by the second. When I showed him how to play it, he couldn't do it! "no, I'll get the tab online." I'm like "no, just play this then this..." couldn't do it. He studied theory. He needed it! When we'd try to have a little "jam" he'd be completely lost. He couldn't just join in and follow someone else. And yet, he can play multiple instruments well. In fact, tell you another thing. He CAN'T play blues. He basically has no "feel" or "soul" or however you want to say it. Yet if I were starting a group today, he could play bass or rhythm guitar no problem. As long as you have all the music written out.

So again, there's no "right or wrong" and one way vs. the other doesn't mean some musical superiority (although I certainly think it's a big advantage!), but we all are different in these things. Someone can be a legend and never know any notes, chords, theory at all, but they can play that guitar incredibly well. Others might "know" everything and might even be technically proficient, but can't "feel" the music the same way. And most guys are somewhere along the curve in between the two extremes.

Again, these are my thoughts. Not presented as facts. YMMV.
 
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I'm glad you said something. It increases discussion, which is difficult to do online. It also helps me see where I might be right, where I might be wrong, and where I can make adjustments to my approach to it all.

Certainly, it could also help others who have similar questions or thoughts.

Getting one's own brain into the best position for them is the ultimate goal of everyone. I struggle with this, which is why I started the thread.

But, you don't need to know theory to play their stuff. You need SKILLS to play their stuff. When people start talking about theory I glaze.

To a big degree, this is true. I was taking lessons from another guitar teacher, and when he'd get into music theory [MT], I glazed over so hard that he's ask me if I was asleep.

I've met these people who just have that thing; that special talent. It is amazing to witness.

I did not have certain skills because I did not know what to rehearse, or how to acquire those skills. That's my guess on identifying the source of some of their genius.

My MT professor in college was horrible, so I did not learn much. Then, I spent over 30 years writing, recording, and performing. Nobody ever asked me anything where I'd need MT to get through. I asked an expert how I was able to achieve this, and he said it was via immersion in Western culture. We all listened to the radio. We've heard songs, structure, melody, harmony, and more. It become ingrained into our brains. And certainly, there are other ways to communicate ideas.

For me, learning MT has been difficult, because it's re-wiring a lifetime of doing things a certain way. But now, when I hear something, I know what it is, and I can write it down. I love Secondary Dominants. MT is more for me than anyone else. The more I can know, the better.

Yngwie is ALWAYS playing in Dragon Mode. That's an official music theory term that I just made up.

I also have a buddy who is like that. I swear if you took his music away in the middle of a song he'd been playing for 5 years, he couldn't finish the song. But leave it there and he'll play the rhythm part perfectly. He NEEDS the music in front of him. This is going to get boring again... LOL

I know a guitarist who has had a huge career, and yet he never leaves the written page. Never. He's always got a song book the size of a telephone book, and that's being conservative about it. He's on the book at ALL times, but I do not perceive him to be boring.

He had a long career with Oingo Boingo, and made a living of penning the works of Danny Elfman for the big screen, and is now in a relatively more casual band called JackiO. Here's a video I shot of Steve Bartek with the band. His solo starts at around the 2:43 mark. I won't say if this performance is boring or not, as I don't want to poison the well, so I'll leave that up to the listener.


I'm the type who typically does not need to see sheet music, but I can look at it and work with it (my weakness is fast sight reading). When I taught myself the first three pages of The Creston, I reached a point where I did not need to look at the sheet music. Once I no longer needed that info, my brain dumped it. Yes, I did have the sheet music on the stand, in case I panicked.

At my best, I learned drum parts for ten songs from another band's album in 24 hours, completely by ear. We performed the set two days later. I'm convinced that my Asperger's Tendencies allows for me to ingest music and puke it back out with a high level of accuracy. I'd never tell anyone that they have to learn how to read music, or that they must become Autistic [if that were even possible]. The band was impressed that I learned their drum parts, and that I would sing along while playing.

So again, there's no "right or wrong" and one way vs. the other doesn't mean some musical superiority (although I certainly think it's a big advantage!), but we all are different in these things. Someone can be a legend and never know any notes, chords, theory at all, but they can play that guitar incredibly well. Others might "know" everything and might even be technically proficient, but can't "feel" the music the same way. And most guys are somewhere along the curve in between the two extremes.

I first thought of BB King, and how he can't play chords, and yet he is a guitar legend.


Indeed, there is no right or wrong way. With something as unique and personal as generating sound, feeling, and emotion, once the goal of getting what you want to the ears of others is achieved, it matters not how it was done.

At one point, I had two bands. In one of them, we would write a song, spend months refining it, and then record it. We recorded a 15-song album over the course of a weekend. The prep took about three years. We were perfect performers.

The other band was one where we'd just start recording, construct the song on-the-spot, and then have listen-and-learn sessions if we were going to actually perform the songs. They'll ask me to bring instruments, because they have ideas. I don't even get a draft. Just listen once, and then start tracking over it. We would spend 3+ years on an album. We were not-so-perfect performers, but could do a good job.

Same amount of time, different methods, and the end results on the recordings were comparable.

For me, with the guitar and learning, learning more about guitar methods and MT was about striving to become a guitarist, and to get away from playing guitar like a drummer, if that makes sense. Dave Grohl does it, Taylor Hawkins does it, and there's not a ton wrong with it, in the realm of pop rock sensibilities. I just wanted to raise myself a bit above this level, with regard to my abilities, in order to make it all more interesting for me.


That guitar solo, tho...
 
My lady is one for the ages. She loves my guitars, SHE bought me my only PRS, and has said from time to time... "This house, these guitars, will all be sadder when there is no one to make them sing". I'm not gonna drop off today for sure, but at least it's also become part of her life that she loves..

That's is a really cool passive-aggressive and circular post.
Have no idea what it means, but good luck and all the best.
 
I just don’t think about it that much. Whatever I try either works or it doesn’t and I’m ok either way.

I don't think about it that much any more either. My long winded posts above were really about the journey. How I got where I am. But yeah, I've been here a while now and it just is what it is. I could have saved a bunch of you guys time if I just said that above, right? LOL
 
But I noticed that grandpa looked sad. He was almost in tears. Everyone is telling me that song was well done, and they were asking what we would be doing next. Their accolades meant nothing, for they weren't even reaching me. I couldn't stop looking at grandpa and his sadness. I had been too busy being the perfect performer to recognize that I was ruining grandpa's Christmas.

I stood up told everyone, "Sorry, but this was the only song I learned, what with being busy with my studies and all." This was a total lie, for I had every single song worked out and had spent countless hours on them. I just couldn't do that to grandpa.

So I asked him if he could please take over, and he did. He gave me the music book, took a seat, and started playing. We weren't 20 seconds in, when the chromatic weee-da-ne-da-ne-da-neeeee happened. Everyone had the usual laugh while holding notes way too long.

I really have no idea how I held my composure in that moment.

It's a lesson that I learned during Christmas of 1983, that I had long forgotten. Music might be about perfection in certain circumstances. Sometimes the perfection can ruin it. But music is about much more than getting it all right. It's about friendship at best, or about avoiding loneliness, at least. There were many times when it was just me and my instruments. So many friends I've made over the years were made over a song. Music is supposed to be about community, and that's something I miss.

Dude, I been reading the thread and this part got me thinking... what was going on with your grandpa? I coulnd't understand... why was he sad after all?

The idea that you could play a song decently obviously doesn't mean that you were taking his place doing the family singing and stuff... you could have both moments, I think he should be happy for you.

By reading other things you have wrote about, you seem to have such strong emotions towards music, but... please don't be offended by this and I mean no harm, but I think you bring some obsessive thoughts that are very very heavy for anyone to carry. You should exercise letting go more often and enjoy things for what they are, without all that load behind.
 
The thing of being intimidated by another guitar player is funny... I think one's background means a lot when talking about it. I'm from an indie background, play in an indie band in an indie circuit, I was interested in playing guitar after seeing Sonic Youth, so my idea of interesting guitar playing is making noise with guitars, weird open chords with loads of pedals and jazzmasters.

In my world, shredding or advanced techniques really don't mean a lot. I know people who would roll their eyes over someone shredding or doing something along these lines. If I go to a guitar store I might play the easiest smashing pumpkins riffs or even some nirvana song, and if someone there thinks I cannot play, then I could give triple flying rat's asses about it. I just wanna play open chords or doo dee doo with loads of reverb and tremolo with one of my guitars. If you think that's not worthy, then you can go hug a tree or something for all I care.

So I don't know how it must be to come from a world where that is highly regarded. My grandpa ripped on the acoustic guitar, my brother and my mum both play better than me, but we all just get along. I never studied properly, nor did the rest of my family.

Good music is good music, technique can go out the window if it doesn't serve a purpose.
 
Dude, I been reading the thread and this part got me thinking... what was going on with your grandpa? I coulnd't understand... why was he sad after all?

The idea that you could play a song decently obviously doesn't mean that you were taking his place doing the family singing and stuff... you could have both moments, I think he should be happy for you.

By reading other things you have wrote about, you seem to have such strong emotions towards music, but... please don't be offended by this and I mean no harm, but I think you bring some obsessive thoughts that are very very heavy for anyone to carry. You should exercise letting go more often and enjoy things for what they are, without all that load behind.
What I have taken from what GD has shared with us during this thread, is that his musical mind is programmed from his days as a student, that anything less than perfect is a failure and this ethos will play heck with anyone’s head.

This discussion I hope has helped him realise that there lots of us that suffer the same insecurities, not just with playing guitar, but performing music in any way.

I hope that this thread has been helpful to GD and that he uploads more clips of him playing.
 
Here's good'n.
For some reason I was quite sceptical playing loud in a music store but when I bought my first top end guitar ( Cus 24) in 2015 I couldn't believe how good it was and got carried away. There was a guy trying out amps in a booth and I was in another.
He was playing ( Doobie Brothers long Train Running) and I thought "I know this one.
Cranked the amp and joined in much to the amusement ( or not) of the occupants.
I was in Heaven and couldn't give a Rats Arse/ Ass!!!
Chill Bro and go for it We'll be with you in spirit.!!!
 
Sorry if this has been posted above already (I may not have read exactly every little detail of the prior 4 pages), but I view music in general as both a science and an art form. If you are into the science aspect, and playing other people’s works or even scales with meticulous accuracy is very important for your job or your psyche, then that is the approach that may be important to you at that time. However, since the guitar is a completely analog instrument and artistry makes room for really any form of expression, I would take comfort in that whatever you play you are expressing your artistic vision, true to the original artist or not, and the adherence to technically correct details doesn’t really matter. This is obviously most true when playing original material. So, when playing in front of other people I’ve learned to take comfort in the “artistic license” of playing things my way and to be gracious to others in the same regard.
 
Stumbled over this! This young lad admits at the end he was nervous, but he played like a pro!

 
And showing what he can do on a nice 30th anniversary 24 fret SE

 
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DTR sorry late in responding I totally agree with you and that's kind of what my teacher was alluding to. You can take the theory road or skills road or both but to get to that jimi Eddie Dimeola status you have the "IT" factor. I don't think that is a bad thing. The world is full of really good guitarist. I'm sure this board is full of them
Someone told me a long time ago that you can do anything you want but your desire to succeed will fade long before your ability to succeed will
 
"That's is a really cool passive-aggressive and circular post.
Have no idea what it means, but good luck and all the best."

It might have been a bit off the wall, but I don't think it's any way passive or aggressive. To me it's the supportive side of guitar playing that many don't experience from their spouse. As to playing in stores and such, I think I got over that particular mentality quite a while ago. I hear good players, I hear awful players, but I'm not there to judge, just buy, and if it requires a spin around the fretboard of an interesting to me guitar, I'll sit for a while and noodle. I was once in a store trying out a now mine guitar, I could overhear the sales staff. "That guy is really good", Yeah, but he isn't playing anything recognizable. To whom exactly?? when you get judged even by the one who is gonna collect your money, it's a pretty pervasive attitude.
 
I was in GC Des Moines Iowa last week. I heard a salesman trash talking those who don't know how to play clean. I instantly thought of this thread.
 
How about Psychology of Guitar Face.

That I really don’t get. I mean I understand looking a little high. But looking like you’re pooping?
 
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