So...thinking about yet another amp

“paul gilbert’s tone, is he aware of it?”

I think PG's hearing has been rode hard and put away wet. I saw a clinic he did in Edinburgh (of all places) about a year ago where he was playing a Marshall half stack. It was pretty loud where I was standing about 30 yards away, but I have to say it did sound good. I'm not disparaging his tone, just saying he's probably had a lot of high SPL's over the years.
 
I think PG's hearing has been rode hard and put away wet. I saw a clinic he did in Edinburgh (of all places) about a year ago where he was playing a Marshall half stack.

He tours with Marshalls as well, there’s a video on his road rig from last fall.

I added it to my earlier reply about Kemper endorsers who in real life don’t seem to use Kempers in their important work.
 
He tours with Marshalls as well, there’s a video on his road rig from last fall.

I added it to my earlier reply about Kemper endorsers who in real life don’t seem to use Kempers in their important work.

Don't we all want to use the "real" thing when cost and volume and weight don't have to be worried about?

My dirty little secret is that I'm sitting with 11 assorted tube amps surrounding me, and 95% of the time, I play my Axe-FX II through a pair of Friedman ASM-12s. I like my Loud in limited doses, and I find for the volume levels I usually play at, a good modeler with good* monitors is more controllable, more nuanced, clearer, and just works better for me. One key thing is to make sure the speaker emulation is rolling off all that garbage above the 8k-10k range. Sure it doesn't howl the same way, but then again it doesn't howl the same way!

There's no perfect solution, it's all about picking amongst the tradeoffs.

(*) By "good" I mean helps the modeler sound more amp-like. I won't claim or pretend it's about accuracy.
 
Also, there are many ways to use a modeler. Direct to house, direct to house and to FRFR for personal monitor and into power amps with real guitar cabs are a few. The later is FAR more likely to please many people because you get to hear it through the speakers you already choose and love, and you get all their inherent colorations and real guitar speaker and cab sound.

What I have noticed, is that when people use them with FRFR, many say it’s very close but their is still a small difference. But when people use them with power amps and real guitar cabs, almost nobody ever says they can tell a difference.

I’ve done the tests with a few buddies who are good players with good ears and we all agreed that even the Helix or AmpliFire can sound 100% fool anyone “real” through a guitar cab and power amp or power section of a guitar amp. Versus, sounding very good or even great with FRFR but lacking that last bit of “real” that it has played through guitar speakers. The FRFR sounds more like a produced guitar tone played back on your stereo. While the power amp>guitar cab has the real “amp in the room” tone.

I’ve never had super high end monitors or FRFR but one of the guys I’m talking about has both. He gigs a Helix with a DXR12 for his monitor, but says it’s still not 100% real like the Helix into his effects return of his 50 watt tube amp and his speaker cab. He also said the following: All that is with me playing alone and totally in “tone critique mode.” Once the band is playing, You would be hard pressed to tell the difference, which is why I take 1 DXR 12 instead of a big heavy cab.” He did say that the one thing he just cant stand is IEMs. No feel, no feedback or sustain (no volume to drive it) and he said he just couldn’t get comfortable hearing himself in one ear and the rest of the band in the other. But he said the loss of sustain/feedback ruined it for him after only a few tries so he never even tried to get used to the other thing.
 
Dave Weiner tours with Vai.

And he may not have a choice about amps in his position with Vai.

Actually, I’ve seen interviews where he explains how he chose his amps, and why he’s been playing them for several years; they’re the Friedman BE100s. Claims they’re the perfect amps for him. It’s very clear that his amp choices were not dictated to him.

He’s his own man. Incidentally, Vai doesn’t play Friedman amps.

It’s kind of odd; you see Tim Pierce’s picture on the Kemper site, but when he very honestly says he doesn’t use them - in a web video, no less - unless a film or TV composer wants him to, because it doesn’t sound as good, that seems to not matter.

You see with your own eyeballs that several of the players whose pictures are also on Kemper’s artist page on their site, are not using these things on their own or other important sessions/gigs.

But despite this evidence, folks would rather look at some picture on a website of a guy hugging a modeling amp and believe that the player now uses a Kemper instead of a tube amp. They can see it isn’t being used in the studio, or onstage, or wherever the artist’s main gig happens to be. I guess reality doesn’t sway people.

Fact is, gear companies give stuff to artists to help promote their product, or offer it at very deep discounts, even if it’s not a formal endorsement. It happens all the time. And the artists will in turn help the company out by allowing their picture to be used on a website to promote the product. It’s only fair. And they’ll sign a piece of paper that allows the company to use their likeness in their promotional materials.

Any tool is nice to have, especially if it’s free, and there are possible uses for it. But in the main, artists put their own money into what they really believe in, which leads me to...Cartage.

The amps are a dime a dozen compared to the costs of shlepping them around the country, unloading, setting up, tearing down, and moving to the next venue.

Cartage is a very big deal. A tour like Vai’s involves a lot of shipping and cartage. He’s not drawing arena crowds, but the expense of traveling and cartage is the same. There are big truck rentals, roadies, freight costs, etc., just for the amps, that can amount to $50,000 - $100,000 for decent US tours. And these folks all have to be put up at hotels, and fed, and given a per diem on top of cartage costs.

That’s a real number, I didn’t make it up. It’s a lot of money to blow if you have a smaller, lighter, perfect alternative that will save money, and you can get by with a smaller road crew, etc.

Why would any artist want to spend that if having real amps on stage didn’t matter? If they could hand a cable to the sound guy and save 3/4 of that expense? You wouldn’t do it, I wouldn’t do it, and most folks would say, “Take the fXcking Kemper.” But. They. Don’t.

Go figure.
 
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What I have noticed, is that when people use them with FRFR, many say it’s very close but their is still a small difference. But when people use them with power amps and real guitar cabs, almost nobody ever says they can tell a difference.

I use 2 FRFR cabs, but I have an unpowered Kemper and use a Fryette tube power amp. I like that setup.

I will concede that there may be subtle tonal differences from the amps Kemper emulates, but for most of us mortals, the pros previously listed in this thread outweigh the cons, especially if you’re gigging or want to play at bedroom volume levels.
 
Why would any artist want to spend that if having real amps on stage didn’t matter? If they could hand a cable to the sound guy and save 3/4 of that expense? You wouldn’t do it, I wouldn’t do it, and most folks would say, “Take the fXcking Kemper.” But. They. Don’t.

Two of the last three concerts I attended were Lonestar and Toque (band members from Slash and Shania Twain). They used and always use Kempers at their shows. Yes. They. Do.
 
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OK, so back to me wanting another amp...

So I am pretty happy with the remarkably loud clean tone I get out of the HXDA. So my initial GAS is surpressed for now.

It sounds like, if I wanted to explore stuff in the PRS line, a Dallas or a 2-Channel C might be where I'd want to start?

Not going to do anything right now, but if a good deal came up on one of those amps, I might bite.

Oh, and for the record, I have to admit when I gig, I play through a tiny pedal modeler straight into the PA mixer, because there simply isn't room to bring a nice tube amp, and it would be overkill volume wise. My tube amps are for home consumption and recording.
 
I will concede that there may be subtle tonal differences from the amps Kemper emulates, but for most of us mortals, the pros previously listed in this thread outweigh the cons, especially if you’re gigging or want to play at bedroom volume levels.

This is all I was trying to say. We completely agree!

Here’s how I’d weigh the pros and cons: If I was playing out a lot, I’d use a Kemper (or perhaps a Helix or Axe-FX} for shows, and record with my tube amps. There’s of the ease of setup, weight advantage, cost savings, and recallability. That’s a good compromise.

The only reason I’m 100% devoted to tube amps is that my back doesn’t pay a price for my enthusiasm. The amps sit there, I set up mics and leave them set up for months at a time.

This is the kind of issue that if you and I were sitting and having a beer, I’d have said, “Yeah, they’re cool, but for recording, I’d stick with a tube amp because the details matter more,” and you’d have said, “Yeah, but I play out and there’s no way I’m hauling one around, plus I need more sounds,” and I’d have said, “If I was playing out, I’d feel the same way.”

And then we’d have another sip, because that conversation would have taken about ten seconds.
 
Two of the last three concerts I attended were Lonestar and Toque (band members from Slash and Shania Twain). They used and always use Kempers at their shows. Yes. They. Do.

I will concede of course that lots of Kemper artists actually use them at shows. My point was that not all the ones on the Kemper list do, but I made that point far too heavy-handedly.

This is why it’s better for me to be alone in my basement all day long, and avoid contact with the world. I’m far too argumentative and unpleasant.
 
OK, so back to me wanting another amp...

So I am pretty happy with the remarkably loud clean tone I get out of the HXDA. So my initial GAS is surpressed for now.

It sounds like, if I wanted to explore stuff in the PRS line, a Dallas or a 2-Channel C might be where I'd want to start?

Not going to do anything right now, but if a good deal came up on one of those amps, I might bite.

Oh, and for the record, I have to admit when I gig, I play through a tiny pedal modeler straight into the PA mixer, because there simply isn't room to bring a nice tube amp, and it would be overkill volume wise. My tube amps are for home consumption and recording.

There’s a DG50 on GC’s site. No idea what that amp is like, but if it’s got the same-ish preamp with a bigger power section... might be the sh!t.
 
So I am pretty happy with the remarkably loud clean tone I get out of the HXDA.

You probably already know this, but just in case you haven’t tried it...once you get the clean tone dialed in, you can definitely dial back the Master to bring the volume down. You’ll hear the point at which it might become too compressed for your taste, in which case, stop there.
 
Actually, I’ve seen interviews where he explains how he chose his amps, and why he’s been playing them for several years; they’re the Friedman BE100s. Claims they’re the perfect amps for him. It’s very clear that his amp choices were not dictated to him.

He’s his own man. Incidentally, Vai doesn’t play Friedman amps.

Fair enough - I haven't read anything about Weiner's rig w/Vai, so I didn't know if the choice was left up to him or not. It was a semi-educated guess that it was a possibility.

And I know Vai plays the Carvins. I tried one of the first ones at a used place. Wasn't quite my cup of tea.
 
And I know Vai plays the Carvins. I tried one of the first ones at a used place. Wasn't quite my cup of tea.

A friend had one; I tried it, and thought it would be a fantastic amp for a person who played in Vai’s style.

I always find it fascinating how individual lots of great players’ tones are. Their gear works so well for their styles, but doesn’t necessarily work for other players. Not a bad thing, of course!
 
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