Sit Down, Shut Up, Play And Listen! Recording And Amp Setting Up Tip #8,768,541

[László]

Haven't we all heard/said this ten zillion times:

"When I record, I can't get the tone I'm hearing when I play." Or "I just can't get the tone I'm hearing in my head."

Listen.

I record guitars nearly every day. Mine and session guys'. And here's a fact: if you're standing up and your guitar cab isn't at ear level you aren't hearing your tone at all. You're hearing the room. No matter what you think, what is really coming off your speaker cone is going to sound different than what you think you hear standing up.

Sound bounces around a room and in the course of that process, some of it is absorbed by the materials in the room, some is reflected around the room and comb-filtered, and some of it just echoes echoes echoes...but in any case, you're not hearing what your guitar and cabinet sound like. And you're certainly not hearing what the microphone hears.

Some here know I'm a believer in acoustic platforms, isolation risers, and acoustical treatment. But even with that, you're going to hear room. To understand what is actually coming off the guitar speaker cone, you have to be in the direct field of the cone. And guitar speaker cabs are beamy devices, especially in the high frequencies. So what you want to do is sit down, so that your ears are in the direct field, but far enough away that you won't go deaf (sound pressure level is reduced by about 6 db if you double the distance between yourself and the speaker). I find that if I'm seated about 8-10 feet away from the cab, and the cab is even as low as 6 inches from the floor, I'm hearing the direct sound of the speakers much better if I'm sitting with my ears in that direct field.

And here's the thing: It's the best way to hear your amp. Whether you're setting up pedals, or working with your amp controls, or wanting to hear what the microphone will pick up, this is the way to do it. Don't stand with your ears 4-5 feet above the level of where the speaker is aimed and think you're hearing it correctly. Even angling the cab, which is a good idea, and helps, isn't perfect if you're not in that direct field of the cone.

People in a studio often stand, and get what they think is the perfect tone, and then listen to playback where the mic is an inch from the speaker right on the cone, and they can't figure out what the heck happened. What happened was that they had absolutely no idea whatsoever what was coming out of that speaker cone.

And of course, if you're not in the direct field, you don't hear the high frequencies correctly, because they are more beamy than mids and lows. So you tend to crank the treble and the result sounds good standing up, but what is coming off the speaker is harsh, and sounds harsh to the mic - and to a live audience who are farther away from the cab than the player, and are in that direct field of the cone. So they plug their ears!

So...sit down, shut up, play yer guitar, and listen to the speaker, not the room. Then you can set everything up right.

I do this even to set up pedals, set my amp controls, etc. No surprises.

 

[solacematt]

Thank you, I shall keep this in mind when I re-track guitars Monday night.
PM you.

 

[László]

Thank you, I shall keep this in mind when I re-track guitars Monday night.
PM you.

Cool! Saw your PM and responded.

 

[veinbuster]

Great advice, and seems kind of obvious once you say it.

Now, if I liked what I hear where I am playing, is it fair game to put a mic a my ears?

 

[Boogie]

Another gem of wisdom. Totally applicable to nearly every situation. Thanks for the help.

 

[g.wizz]

This is what I arrived to in my practice room, I play at basically low volume so neighbors won't curse me LOL
but I sit on the couch 6 feet away from a Vox night train speaker cab with a 10" Celestion vintage speaker and enjoy
the sound and I even lower the treble level since the sound waves are hitting directly my ears plus I don't need to raise
the amp volume anymore my Blackstar HT5r head sounds like a 20 watt one

:top:

 

[László]

Great advice, and seems kind of obvious once you say it.

Now, if I liked what I hear where I am playing, is it fair game to put a mic a my ears?

You bet. You'll need a stereo pair of good omnidirectional mics to capture what your ears are hearing. It may not be perfect, but it'll be much closer. I recommend omni mics for this because your ears are also omnidirectional. Cardioid mics won't do it correctly.

The reason most studio recordings aren't done that way is that there is so much room sound in the recorded track, it becomes difficult to mix. But if all you want to do is capture "here's how my amp sounds to my ears," you can do it.

 

[bluefade]

Les ,what do you do when you record the guitar direct ? How do you get the tone you like then ? The noise level is really low, allowing for real good separation between the instruments, but the tone is not the same as with an amp. Got any tips for a" dumble" like tone without an amp ? Thanks in advance !

 

[alantig]

I'm not Les, but I play one on TV!

There's modeling, re-amping - good ways to alter the tone and possibly get the tone you're looking for. There are other things you can do to really drive the sound, but they probably won't be Dumble-like. And if you're digital, they won't always work (driving the board or pre-amp into the red, etc.).

 

[László]

Les ,what do you do when you record the guitar direct ?

There are only a few situations where I record direct:

1. I'm looking for a special effect only available to me with software. Rare, but it happens. I'm talking about really strange effects they don't even make pedals for, like trance-gate effects, etc.

2. I have to move quickly on a demo and don't have the right amp on hand for what I need. I'll later replace the modeled sound with a real amp for the final gig.

3. Something has gone disastrously wrong and I don't have an amp around.

In these situations I use a good direct box - right now, I like the Avalon U5 (actually, I've liked this box for about 14 years). And I'll use whatever modeler sounds good with the particular piece of music.

How do you get the tone you like then ?

I don't get a tone I like, except in the case of something that uses weird filters or other stuff I don't have the hardware for. I get a tone I can live with temporarily.

This is why I record real amps.

Noise: I often place ASC tube traps in front of the amp. These act as gobos and bass traps, and while they don't create a silent recording situation, they do a great job of giving me reasonable sound pressure levels when I need to crank an amp. In the picture my cabinet is also resting on an Auralex platform to reduce vibrations transmitted into the structure, and in addition sits on an Isoacoustics stand to isolate it from sympathetic vibrations further, to raise the cabinet further off the floor, and this further reduces the artificial bass reinforcement that is usually caused by reflections of bass frequencies coming off the floor called half space reinforcement. I also have additional gobos available to further isolate the cabinet if needed.

Currently I'm recording tracks for a fairly large project, and these tube traps are placed around my PRS Grissom cabinet, as this project calls for the DG30 amp. With the Grissom cab's rear ports, I use one gobo in the center of the rear of the amp, and two in front, with the mic stuck between them. This technique as I said just about reduces the sound pressure levels in the room enough to be livable while I record, prevent the kinds of rattles that normally destroy a session done in a home studio, etc.

Got any tips for a" dumble" like tone without an amp ? Thanks in advance !

No, I don't think it's even remotely possible at this juncture to get an authentic Dumble tone with software. And yes, I've heard the Axe FX.

So much of the Dumble tone results from the touch sensitivity and feel of the amp and how you interact with it -- it's hard to describe. But it supports the note in a certain way, and you push into it with your playing. Plus the texture of Dumble style distortion is different, and I haven't heard a decent approximation of it in software or digital hardware.

And for this very reason from 2003-2011 I owned a series of Two-Rock amplifiers. An Onyx, two Onyx Sigs, and Two Custom Reverb Sigs to get that Dumble style tone.

If you like the Dumble tone, I highly recommend a Two-Rock amplifier, they sound amazing and they're incredibly well made.

The discovery of the HXDA caused me to replace my Two-Rocks with one. It doesn't sound like a Dumble, it sounds like an amp I like even more. That really surprised me!

 

[Twinfan]

All good advice for recording, but I find players that play sat down a lot never look "right" when playing gigs and they always look uncomfortable and awkward. Rock n' roll is a lot about look as well as sound.

Once you've got your sound make sure you practice playing stood up if you plan on gigging!

 

[kingsleyd]

All good advice for recording, but I find players that play sat down a lot never look "right" when playing gigs and they always look uncomfortable and awkward. Rock n' roll is a lot about look as well as sound.

Once you've got your sound make sure you practice playing stood up if you plan on gigging!

Well you could just sit on gigs, like Robert Fripp, Steve Kimock, Steve Hackett, Johnny A, et. al.

And rock-n-roll music is not the be-all and end-all.

At any rate, Les' advice is right on the money. It's important to know what your amp+speaker actually sound like, which means getting your ear(s) in the sweet spot of where the sound coming off the cone(s) resolves itself. Besides being within the proper dispersion range on the L-R and Up-Down axes, the sound coming off of different speakers and cabinets can coalesce at very different distances. Regardless of whether you play sitting or standing, the whole playing-electric-guitar thing works much better when you're positioned in such a way that you can properly hear what you're doing. (and so your guitar can interact with the sound waves emanating from your speaker(s) -- that's a huge and underappreciated aspect of playing that is very very important, at least to me)

 

[László]

Once you've got your sound make sure you practice playing stood up if you plan on gigging!

My advice was meant for setting up the amp, getting a recorded sound right, etc.

 

[László]

It's important to know what your amp+speaker actually sound like, which means getting your ear(s) in the sweet spot of where the sound coming off the cone(s) resolves itself. Besides being within the proper dispersion range on the L-R and Up-Down axes, the sound coming off of different speakers and cabinets can coalesce at very different distances. Regardless of whether you play sitting or standing, the whole playing-electric-guitar thing works much better when you're positioned in such a way that you can properly hear what you're doing. (and so your guitar can interact with the sound waves emanating from your speaker(s) -- that's a huge and underappreciated aspect of playing that is very very important, at least to me)

I think you're right, it is important to hear yourself correctly while playing, too. In some settings one needs to be in that sweet spot playing, though in others, something like in-ear monitors can give a player a good idea of what's happening, and offer the added benefit of hearing protection.

When I gig live (a rare thing for me) I do wear hearing protection, and that does interfere a little bit with hearing exactly what's coming off the speaker, but it's a necessary trade-off to protect my ears since I make my living using them.

However, I know what my settings are going to generally sound like because I set the amp up sitting and being in the sweet spot.

I don't like really loud bands in small places, but sometimes I've sat in with bands that are just insanely loud and sometimes it can't be helped.

 

[Twinfan]

Fair enough guys, I just thought I'd add to the conversation. I'll move along...

 

[twbuff]

How is it possible to have over 8400 posts in just over 32 months as an active member? Do you have a life outside of reading the forum and responding?
Loved your answer about hearing. As a woodwind player, I can attest that you never hear what you sound like with a reed vibrating and your teeth providing the feedback rather than just your ears. The process of getting on the same level and actually hearing the amp makes a lot of sense.

Thanks.

 

[László]

How is it possible to have over 8400 posts in just over 32 months as an active member? Do you have a life outside of reading the forum and responding?.

Proving once again that there IS such a thing as a stupid question...here are two of them.

 

[veinbuster]

Proving once again that there IS such a thing as a stupid question...here are two of them.

Oh. How disheartening. Just when I was thinking my life must be three times better than yours because I only have one third the posts.

 

[bluefade]

There are only a few situations where I record direct:

1. I'm looking for a special effect only available to me with software. Rare, but it happens. I'm talking about really strange effects they don't even make pedals for, like trance-gate effects, etc.

2. I have to move quickly on a demo and don't have the right amp on hand for what I need. I'll later replace the modeled sound with a real amp for the final gig.

3. Something has gone disastrously wrong and I don't have an amp around.

In these situations I use a good direct box - right now, I like the Avalon U5 (actually, I've liked this box for about 14 years). And I'll use whatever modeler sounds good with the particular piece of music.



I don't get a tone I like, except in the case of something that uses weird filters or other stuff I don't have the hardware for. I get a tone I can live with temporarily.

This is why I record real amps.

Noise: I often place ASC tube traps in front of the amp. These act as gobos and bass traps, and while they don't create a silent recording situation, they do a great job of giving me reasonable sound pressure levels when I need to crank an amp. In the picture my cabinet is also resting on an Auralex platform to reduce vibrations transmitted into the structure, and in addition sits on an Isoacoustics stand to isolate it from sympathetic vibrations further, to raise the cabinet further off the floor, and this further reduces the artificial bass reinforcement that is usually caused by reflections of bass frequencies coming off the floor called half space reinforcement. I also have additional gobos available to further isolate the cabinet if needed.

Currently I'm recording tracks for a fairly large project, and these tube traps are placed around my PRS Grissom cabinet, as this project calls for the DG30 amp. With the Grissom cab's rear ports, I use one gobo in the center of the rear of the amp, and two in front, with the mic stuck between them. This technique as I said just about reduces the sound pressure levels in the room enough to be livable while I record, prevent the kinds of rattles that normally destroy a session done in a home studio, etc.





No, I don't think it's even remotely possible at this juncture to get an authentic Dumble tone with software. And yes, I've heard the Axe FX.

So much of the Dumble tone results from the touch sensitivity and feel of the amp and how you interact with it -- it's hard to describe. But it supports the note in a certain way, and you push into it with your playing. Plus the texture of Dumble style distortion is different, and I haven't heard a decent approximation of it in software or digital hardware.

And for this very reason from 2003-2011 I owned a series of Two-Rock amplifiers. An Onyx, two Onyx Sigs, and Two Custom Reverb Sigs to get that Dumble style tone.

If you like the Dumble tone, I highly recommend a Two-Rock amplifier, they sound amazing and they're incredibly well made.

The discovery of the HXDA caused me to replace my Two-Rocks with one. It doesn't sound like a Dumble, it sounds like an amp I like even more. That really surprised me!

Thanks, for the info Les ! As usual, I learned more about the recording process. Thank you for taking the time to give out those in-depth tips. HAPPY HOLIDAYS and a HEALTHY NEW YEAR !!

 

[László]

Oh. How disheartening. Just when I was thinking my life must be three times better than yours because I only have one third the posts.

Well, your life really is three times better than mine, but not because of the posts.

Thanks, for the info Les ! As usual, I learned more about the recording process. Thank you for taking the time to give out those in-depth tips. HAPPY HOLIDAYS and a HEALTHY NEW YEAR !!

Thanks Bluefade! Have a wonderful holiday season and the best new year of your life!