Santana SE pickup swap issue

[AceIT]

Two days ago I bought my first PRS...
I own a bunch of gibsons ( r8, trad, sg... ) and other guitars... NONE of them was left stock.
As the compulsive modder I am I immediatly "upgraded" the wiring on the last baby, also because I was disappointed by how it plays.
So I wired it '50 style and a russian PIO went in. That make a HUGE improvement.

Then, as I have some set of gibson HB laying around from my other "upgrades" I thought to put what I thought "better" pickups on the santana.
Honestly I like the stock korean G&B santana too, but I thought that if they sound good some better pickup will sound awesome.
I was also disappointed as, while I was trying to adjust pole height, I found out that two pole screws were stripped and I have to pull out the pickup and placing them by hand as they are keep in position only by the wax inside the HB.... not a good sign of "quality".
Moreover I don't like naked pickup and I prefer a nice covered one.

And here the problems started

First I put a set of 57/57+ in... that are my preferred stock pickups...
well... they sound really good... incredibly similar to my R8... and on a "cheap" axe that's amazing.
BUT.. first of all, as on the 24 frets pickups distance ( one another ) is reduced.. and they are quite similar there is almost no difference in tone from neck to bridge position... certainly the situation would improve with a better setup..
The REAL ISSUE was that in middle position the volume halves... I thought.. "mmm.. ok .. they sound similar and the distance between them put them "out of fase" dumping the output... " I played a little with the heights to see if the situation improve... with poor results.
Moreover it would become the umpteenth gibson tone guitar I have around.. and that's not was I'm searching for.
So I try a set of 490r/498t... the 490r is quite similar to the 57.. and 498 is an hotter alnico 5 around 13k, similar to the G&B santana at the brige...
I hope that mismatching the tone will solve the out of "counterphase" issue... but again.. they sound really good in their positions, but "gibsonish".. and they dumped in middle position.

So the stock Santana pickups went back in and I'm a happy camper .. for now..

It comes to me lately that, as the stock pickups doen't show the same behavior, maybe they are originally produced "out of phase" in order they will become "in phase" on this specific setup...

As I know that sooner or later I will order some boutique pickups to put inside the santana se, as I did for my other guitars, I wonder what I'll have to take care of in order not to run in the samme issue.

Any advice ???

 

[toothace]

Check the auction sites/TGP/Vintage Rocker for a set of your favorite PRS pickups...I have an HFS/VB combo waiting for the paint job to be finished on my SE Santana. I haven't played them but I hear Dragon I pups are nice also, and there's a full harness currently up on the major auction site.

 

[Ovibos]

It sounds like you may have mixed up some wires and put the pickups out of phase as you suggested.

On here, you'll probably get a lot of suggestions for USA PRS pickups, which are all pretty great. I love the 85/15s in my CE.

However if you're like me, for an SE I prefer to go cheaper. There's a lot of options there; I just put some Dragonfire Phat Screamers in my SE singlecut. Haven't given a big workout, but initial report is that they are pretty hot and punchy as expected.

One thing I didn't see in your post was what you're actually looking for; it was what you've tried and a 'sameness'. There are many more knowledgeable than I here, but a sense of your musical styles, pickup hotness, amps, etc might give more to work on.

 

[AceIT]

very difficult to mix up wires TWO times with two different sets of pickups.. expecially on a wiring simple as the one on the SE

As I said I'm not a totally newby working on guitars.... two different sets of gibson humbukers and both show the same issue...

my question of advice was not about tone and pickup models... when it will come the time I will speak with my "pusher" ( mark at ox4.... ) and we'll find how to calibrate them.

I just wonder if someone swapped the pickups on a santana se 2017 .. and, in case, if all went without issues..

 

[bodia]

I have not done what you have, but I did put a set of Bare Knuckles in a CE with similar results. Turns out the color coding isn't always the same. As mentioned above, you likely have something out of phase. I ended up taking mine to a tech because I needed some neck work done to it as well. When I picked it up he told me I had a couple of wires mixed up.

 

[bodia]

very difficult to mix up wires TWO times with two different sets of pickups.. expecially on a wiring simple as the one on the SE

As I said I'm not a totally newby working on guitars.... two different sets of gibson humbukers and both show the same issue...

my question of advice was not about tone and pickup models... when it will come the time I will speak with my "pusher" ( mark at ox4.... ) and we'll find how to calibrate them.

I just wonder if someone swapped the pickups on a santana se 2017 .. and, in case, if all went without issues..

Here, read this thread. In here it mentions the difference in color coding. Black is hot in one brand, while white is hot in another. Might get you the answer you're looking for.

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/pickup-question.24029/#post-328948

 

[AceIT]

let's start saying that G&B santana come with the following color... BOTH.... red is the hot, white and green soldered together are start/finish if you want to split... and another color ( is covered but I think black ) and shield together.
the two reds go to the hot on the selector switch..
very simple and very difficult to mixup the wires of the other pickups.... 490/498 are even with the classical braided wire... so it's IMPOSSIBLE to mistake what is going where.

the only thing that comes in mind is that , even showing the same color scheme, the two G&B are wired differently inside. The link you posted seems to mean this... the stock pickup are produced OUT OF PHASE.... so you have to make every pickup you want to swap in the same...

this is a picture of the stock wiring on my santana.

 

[MichaelS]

let's start saying that G&B santana come with the following color... BOTH.... red is the hot, white and green soldered together are start/finish if you want to split... and another color ( is covered but I think black ) and shield together.
the two reds go to the hot on the selector switch..
very simple and very difficult to mixup the wires of the other pickups.... 490/498 are even with the classical braided wire... so it's IMPOSSIBLE to mistake what is going where.

the only thing that comes in mind is that , even showing the same color scheme, the two G&B are wired differently inside. The link you posted seems to mean this... the stock pickup are produced OUT OF PHASE.... so you have to make every pickup you want to swap in the same...

this is a picture of the stock wiring on my santana.

PRS confuses the heck out of me for wiring. Depending on pickup (bass/treble) white or black is hot: http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/schematics/pickups.pdf
no idea if this would translate to G&B, but I would think you're right on the same color being hot.

If you're not out of phase, maybe the switch has bad contacts in the middle position. My original did it in the Cu22 SE. It came out for a US harness.

Regarding your pickup distance on 24 frets, I can only say my core Santana pups sound very different even with 24 frets. Maybe the Gibsons require more space, but I've never heard of that being an issue before...

 

[AceIT]

the switch work flawlessly...
I put back the stock pickups and they immediately sound as good as they are supposed to be...

only with the two set of gibsons the problem appear.

Unfortunately I thought to switch the phase after removing them.. else I'd try to deliberately wire one pickup out of phase... that it's different from the mod suggested on the preceding post that seems something more like the "peter green mod" on some les paul.