Questions! Modern Eagle V vs 509

[Maertl513]

I'm an EOD guy. First of all I'll try to be successful with stand-off techniques prior operating dismounted. Fact is: Mozzi and I shake peaceful our hands. Don't set up fire where everything is calm.

The Mesa cabinet - likewise all other depicted gear in the picture but the SE II - belong to the guy, where we had a local PRS aficionado get-together.

(I have a 2×12 TwinCab made by BluGuitar, owner is Thomas Blug, former sound designer of Hughes & Kettner for more than two decades. Last SAT, wife was out, I played guitar without HELIX and headphones but amp with cab. The 2x12 lost by sound and the bloom of frequencies emmitted by my Barefaced Reformer 112 cab with its Advanced Vent Diffraction back. I don't need such Mesa cab, even my 4×12 V30 cab can't deliver that sound.)

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I'm an EOD guy. First of all I'll try to be successful with stand-off techniques prior operating dismounted. Fact is: Mozzi and I shake peaceful our hands. Don't set up fire where everything is calm.

The Mesa cabinet - likewise all other depicted gear in the picture but the SE II - belong to the guy, where we had a local PRS aficionado get-together.

(I have a 2×12 TwinCab made by BluGuitar, owner is Thomas Blug, former sound designer of Hughes & Kettner for more than two decades. Last SAT, wife was out, I played guitar without HELIX and headphones but amp with cab. The 2x12 lost by sound and the bloom of frequencies emmitted by my Barefaced Reformer 112 cab with its Advanced Vent Diffraction back. I don't need such Mesa cab, even my 4×12 V30 cab can't deliver that sound.)

I’m just taken with that flame, ‘cos I’m a wood junkie.

 

[shinksma]

I have both a MEV (WL, with Hog body, maple cap, IRW neck and Brazzy FB) and a 509 (WL, Swamp ash body, maple cap, and all-maple neck).

Obviously, due to the woods involved, they sound very, very different.

The pickups also are a major factor - the 509 pickups (305 single coils, tweaked over time I believe) are very different beasts from the Paul's Pickups and single coil in the MEV.

So unlike others here, who might have had a hog body and neck 509 and thus similar build to the Core MEV, I fully intend to keep both, since they are very different yet complementary.

 

[Rider1260]

I have some unfortunate news, the 509 does not, in fact, have 509 tones. False advertising!

HA 5 pickups and 9 tones

 

[Black Plaid]

HA 5 pickups and 9 tones

That makes no sense! My Modern Eagles aren't called Modern Eagle 206. Also the ME V has waaay more than V tones!

It's just all SUS is what I am saying!!!!!!

 

[Jmb1984]

I have both a MEV (WL, with Hog body, maple cap, IRW neck and Brazzy FB) and a 509 (WL, Swamp ash body, maple cap, and all-maple neck).

Obviously, due to the woods involved, they sound very, very different.

The pickups also are a major factor - the 509 pickups (305 single coils, tweaked over time I believe) are very different beasts from the Paul's Pickups and single coil in the MEV.

So unlike others here, who might have had a hog body and neck 509 and thus similar build to the Core MEV, I fully intend to keep both, since they are very different yet complementary.

Since you see the 509 and MEV as complementary, are you able to elaborate more on where you think the 509 excels over the MEV and vice versa?

For example, is one better at certain kinds of music over the other? Does one get better single coil or humbucker tones, or handle gain/clean tones better etc? How is the volume change (if any) when switching from hum to single?

 

[shinksma]

Since you see the 509 and MEV as complementary, are you able to elaborate more on where you think the 509 excels over the MEV and vice versa?

For example, is one better at certain kinds of music over the other? Does one get better single coil or humbucker tones, or handle gain/clean tones better etc? How is the volume change (if any) when switching from hum to single?

Those are good questions. Interesting questions.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to elaborate sufficiently in my responses, but:

I think both can be used for whatever type of music you want - it's easy to fall into the trap of "I use thig guitar for this music, and that guitar for that, and never shall they mix!"

However, I do recognize that there may be differences that help you get to a certain tone or feel associated with particular music styles. The 509 is easier to get to the "strat" tones, probably because it is closer in woods to my favorite strat tones (maple neck & FB, ash body) and the single coil pickups (when selected as such) seem to be geared towards strat-type pups (the HBs on the 509 are really two SCs meshed), vs a HB that has been modified to produce a SC signal. If you can see what I mean there.

But I bet there are RW neck&FB strats out there that sound quite different from their maple-neck brethren (sisters?), and would therefore possibly sound closer to my MEV.

Scale length might be a factor - the 509 is slightly longer at 25 1/4", but frankly I don't know if a 25" scale would _really_ make a discernable difference, all other things being equal.

I think the pickups in the 509 make it better suited to "jack of all trades" tones, since it covers the strat sound nicely and does a yeoman's job of HB tones.

I didn't really pay attention to volume changes when going into single-coil modes - maybe I will play with that tonight. But it wasn't something that bothered me, since I clearly haven't even registered it as a problem.

And all of this reminds me of an anecdote I read on FB recently: David Gilmour was somewhere with his gear set up in the 80's for a charity event, and Mark Knopfler came along and wanted to play though it, because he had brought just his guitar - Gilmour was concerned that Knopfler would play through his effects and amps and sound "too much like Gilmour". Ah yes, here is the quote:

New Mark Knopfler & David Gilmour Tells Me What Happened When He Lent Mark His Amps!

There is always a beauty that accompanies a Mark Knopfler album. It is the beauty of sound with a grace that can only materialize by the artist and the producer caring enough to take the time to use the proper personnel, instruments, and recording studio gear to record each song. To my ears (and...

classicsdujour.com

David was doing a gig somewhere for a charity and there were a number of musicians invited. He had brought all his gear, which you can imagine is quite sophisticated and designed to give him that signature Pink Floyd sound (most professional guitar players have their unique rigs built to achieve this for their live performances).

Well, Knopfler had showed up for the show with only his guitar and asked David if he could borrow his rig and amps to play out of. David said, of course but sat with his guitar tech, Phil Taylor, watching as both worried that Knopfler couldn’t help but sound like David Gilmour/Pink Floyd, and how weird that might be.

But low and behold, as Mark started to play, somehow he sounded exactly like Mark Knopfler! Both David and Phil were flabbergasted—“how is he doing that??!!” As time went on they began to see how so much of Knopfler’s sound is, indeed, in his fingers and in his unique finger picking style.

So...tone is in the fingers. The guitars can help you get a little closer to where you want to go, maybe, but in the end, you sound like you.

 

[Jmb1984]

Those are good questions. Interesting questions.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to elaborate sufficiently in my responses, but:

I think both can be used for whatever type of music you want - it's easy to fall into the trap of "I use thig guitar for this music, and that guitar for that, and never shall they mix!"

However, I do recognize that there may be differences that help you get to a certain tone or feel associated with particular music styles. The 509 is easier to get to the "strat" tones, probably because it is closer in woods to my favorite strat tones (maple neck & FB, ash body) and the single coil pickups (when selected as such) seem to be geared towards strat-type pups (the HBs on the 509 are really two SCs meshed), vs a HB that has been modified to produce a SC signal. If you can see what I mean there.

But I bet there are RW neck&FB strats out there that sound quite different from their maple-neck brethren (sisters?), and would therefore possibly sound closer to my MEV.

Scale length might be a factor - the 509 is slightly longer at 25 1/4", but frankly I don't know if a 25" scale would _really_ make a discernable difference, all other things being equal.

I think the pickups in the 509 make it better suited to "jack of all trades" tones, since it covers the strat sound nicely and does a yeoman's job of HB tones.

I didn't really pay attention to volume changes when going into single-coil modes - maybe I will play with that tonight. But it wasn't something that bothered me, since I clearly haven't even registered it as a problem.

And all of this reminds me of an anecdote I read on FB recently: David Gilmour was somewhere with his gear set up in the 80's for a charity event, and Mark Knopfler came along and wanted to play though it, because he had brought just his guitar - Gilmour was concerned that Knopfler would play through his effects and amps and sound "too much like Gilmour". Ah yes, here is the quote:

New Mark Knopfler & David Gilmour Tells Me What Happened When He Lent Mark His Amps!

There is always a beauty that accompanies a Mark Knopfler album. It is the beauty of sound with a grace that can only materialize by the artist and the producer caring enough to take the time to use the proper personnel, instruments, and recording studio gear to record each song. To my ears (and...

classicsdujour.com

So...tone is in the fingers. The guitars can help you get a little closer to where you want to go, maybe, but in the end, you sound like you.

This is great information! Thank you for taking the time to reply. Like many others out there, I have been comparing the two for a potential purchase. Based on this post and some other threads I have found, it seems like the 509 is the better guitar for me. Thanks again!

 

[Mozzi]

This is great information! Thank you for taking the time to reply. Like many others out there, I have been comparing the two for a potential purchase. Based on this post and some other threads I have found, it seems like the 509 is the better guitar for me. Thanks again!

I think this is great demo of the 509 and its various pick-ups in a mix with songs you are probably familiar with...

I do think that if you are 'hoping' a Mahogany body/neck with a Maple Cap and rosewood fretboard will sound like a 'typical' Strat, I think you'll be a bit disappointed. It does offer 'Stratty' tones but I'd say there is quite a difference between this and the Silver Sky. I do think the Ash/Maple Neck run 509's gets 'closer' to a typical strat if that is what you want.

I do think the 509 sounds 'good enough' to give me Single Coil tones to suit the music and maybe preferable to 'some' strats I've heard too - as long as the audience is happy, they won't care what guitar you play...

The MEv has its 'own' HB and SC tones that all will do the 'same' role in your music, a different flavour to a 509 and will sound 'great' when you have your amp and pedals all dialed in, the rest of the music (Rhythm, Bass, Drums etc). The MEv has a 'few' more options with its particular wiring, and a Special Semi-Hollow with its 'HSH' configuration has more than the 509, fewer than the MEv but a 'different' flavour of each 'HB/SC' combination they all have in common..

Anyway hope you enjoy the journey...

 

[Jmb1984]

I think this is great demo of the 509 and its various pick-ups in a mix with songs you are probably familiar with...

I do think that if you are 'hoping' a Mahogany body/neck with a Maple Cap and rosewood fretboard will sound like a 'typical' Strat, I think you'll be a bit disappointed. It does offer 'Stratty' tones but I'd say there is quite a difference between this and the Silver Sky. I do think the Ash/Maple Neck run 509's gets 'closer' to a typical strat if that is what you want.

I do think the 509 sounds 'good enough' to give me Single Coil tones to suit the music and maybe preferable to 'some' strats I've heard too - as long as the audience is happy, they won't care what guitar you play...

The MEv has its 'own' HB and SC tones that all will do the 'same' role in your music, a different flavour to a 509 and will sound 'great' when you have your amp and pedals all dialed in, the rest of the music (Rhythm, Bass, Drums etc). The MEv has a 'few' more options with its particular wiring, and a Special Semi-Hollow with its 'HSH' configuration has more than the 509, fewer than the MEv but a 'different' flavour of each 'HB/SC' combination they all have in common..

Anyway hope you enjoy the journey...

Thank you! I can tell a lot went into that video and I appreciate hearing some well known songs. Even through a Kemper direct (as a oppose to traditional amp micing) it gives a good sense of what different 509 settings achieve. I also came across some other great demo videos and was honestly impressed by the sounds coming out of all three models (509, MEV and Special).

I believe I read in some other threads that the MEV and Special are more so offering different flavors of humbucker tones (even when split), whereas the threads also implied that the 509 is a little better at getting single coil tones. I am coming from the Gibson world so pretty much any single coil sounds will be a welcome addition. Sometimes in a band setting with something like a Les Paul I find that everything but the bridge pickup can struggle at times to get through the mix. So I am looking for a blend of single coil and humbucker tones, but I don’t necessarily need a Fender substitute. Just some more options available (some PRS flavor is fine with me). I think I would probably go the Fiore or Silver Sky route and save some money if I was only after classic Strat tones.

 

[Andrew Paul]

Hang on a minute you two, I’ll get the leather gloves and duelling pistols. @bodia and I will see you both a dawn

Now, let’s talk about that Mesa cabinet, oh my.

Don’t mess with Mozzi !!!

Mozzi and Les know their $#!t … I’m a mere mortal.

 

[Mozzi]

Thank you! I can tell a lot went into that video and I appreciate hearing some well known songs. Even through a Kemper direct (as a oppose to traditional amp micing) it gives a good sense of what different 509 settings achieve. I also came across some other great demo videos and was honestly impressed by the sounds coming out of all three models (509, MEV and Special).

I believe I read in some other threads that the MEV and Special are more so offering different flavors of humbucker tones (even when split), whereas the threads also implied that the 509 is a little better at getting single coil tones. I am coming from the Gibson world so pretty much any single coil sounds will be a welcome addition. Sometimes in a band setting with something like a Les Paul I find that everything but the bridge pickup can struggle at times to get through the mix. So I am looking for a blend of single coil and humbucker tones, but I don’t necessarily need a Fender substitute. Just some more options available (some PRS flavor is fine with me). I think I would probably go the Fiore or Silver Sky route and save some money if I was only after classic Strat tones.

Each has their own 'voice' and would work 'equally' well to your audience - especially in a mix when they aren't focussed on your 'individual' tone but whether you are 'playing well' with the band. None will sound 'exactly' like a Silver Sky and whilst I have a 'regular' 509 and Special Semi-Hollow, if I was needing 'SC' tones, I'd happily use either's HB's in a Split configuration - it would be a 'slightly' different sound, but in a mix, my audience wouldn't care.

To me, the 509 was designed around its 'functionality' to be a 'versatile' Super-Strat in the PRS 'flavour' and was perhaps more concerned about the 'SC' so its not 'shrill' or 'harsh' and the resulting Humbucker is what they ended up with. Its all somewhat 'functional' and sounds 'great' but I also think its perhaps a bit generic sounding so you need to inject some 'flavour' into it. Possibly because its designed to be a 'covers' tool who wants/needs some generic HB/SC type sounds to sculpt the sound they want or need.

The Special on the Other hand is much more a HB designed Guitar - it's basically a Custom 22-08 with a NF added in the middle to give some 'extra' tones and a LOT lighter than my 509 - being a semi-hollow 'helps' a lot and maybe something to consider too. I prefer the 'split' on my 58/15 MT's to the SC of my 509 personally, but I do think the 509 is more 'stratty'. The fact it has a NF in the middle - which gives sweet Position 4 tone with a split neck - different, but 'similar' enough to a strat and I think I prefer it. You can still get all but the 'middle' pup on its own (like the 509 and Strats - so that could figure into the decision if you want/need to be able to use that). The 58/15 MT's were 'designed' to sound like a Classic Humbucker that you'd expect, it has 'more' flavour/character and the SC tones are great. I do prefer it to my 58/18 LT's Split in my 594/594HBii but I prefer Taps in general. The new Specials come with LT's so I can't comment on these...

I don't have the MEv but as it has the TCI Pups - as used in the Pauls - you have a good idea of their voice and would give you the 'most' options overall from a Single guitar. It can do all the same 'basic' tones as each - all with its 'own' flavour (and others too if you want/need them) like a Paul's is different from a McCarty yet both 'double' HB guitars, both fixed bridge etc but both would cover the same sort of territory. The flavour is slightly different coming out in every one of these but they are all perfectly usable and would do the 'Job' you expect it to do. Your audience would only care if the sound is bad, you are not playing well or in time - otherwise all they care about is the 'Music' and having a good time, not what 'guitar' you are playing or what your individual tone sounds like (if they could hear it isolated) just that it sounds 'good'.

All have their own 'PRS' flavour due to their own individual PRS made Pups and built similarly, from similar materials, treated the same etc by PRS so all have that going - its what 'flavour' do you want, which may suit you/your playing style etc best, which works best for you - because they would all 'work'

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Don’t mess with Mozzi !!!

Mozzi and Les know their $#!t … I’m a mere mortal.

I’m an innocent bystander, mediating in the only way I know how.

 

[Andrew Paul]

I’m an innocent bystander, mediating in the only way I know how.

Yes..... Chaos.........

 

[shinksma]

This is great information! Thank you for taking the time to reply. Like many others out there, I have been comparing the two for a potential purchase. Based on this post and some other threads I have found, it seems like the 509 is the better guitar for me. Thanks again!

As others have noted, the WL509 I have is not the same woods that you'll find on a "regular" 509. Same is true of my MEV, because of the RW neck - the "core" MEV has a hog neck.

So my experience might be dangerous to use as a guide, since the guitars are different from what you will probably procure.

If you are looking for single-coil tones with the occasional need to crank up some HB meatier tones, the Fiore might be something to consider, because of the HSS configuration.

OTOH, if you look around you can find both MEVs and 509s with Ash bodies and maple necks/FBs, thus lending themselves a bit closer to a strat sound. They are typically WL runs, so they have a higher cost, but there might be a few copies bouncing around on the used market by now.

 

[Andrew Paul]

As others have noted, the WL509 I have is not the same woods that you'll find on a "regular" 509. Same is true of my MEV, because of the RW neck - the "core" MEV has a hog neck.

So my experience might be dangerous to use as a guide, since the guitars are different from what you will probably procure.

If you are looking for single-coil tones with the occasional need to crank up some HB meatier tones, the Fiore might be something to consider, because of the HSS configuration.

OTOH, if you look around you can find both MEVs and 509s with Ash bodies and maple necks/FBs, thus lending themselves a bit closer to a strat sound. They are typically WL runs, so they have a higher cost, but there might be a few copies bouncing around on the used market by now.

Excellent reply, Thanks!

 

[Patrick Montgomery]

I never played a 509, but I've had a 513 and 3 MEVs. The MEV blows the 513 out of the water in about every aspect in my opinion. When I got the 2nd MEV, I let the 513 go - which is saying a lot because that was also a sentimental guitar. I now have a WL MEV and the Exp 2020 versions, and they are my go-to guitars. The only thing the MEV leaves me wanting for is 24 frets, but the 513 didn't have that either. The sound of the MEVs is much better than the 513. My friend and I were discussing it, and it seems like the MEV is the guitar that Paul wanted the 513/509 to be all along. The MEV pickups are sweeter and clearer.

 

[Glide-bpm]

My MEV will never displace my Wood Library Artist Quilt Swamp Ash 509 from Brian's Guitars!!!

I love my MEV, but I love my 509 more!