PRS SE Custom 24 & JBL Speakers - Distortion

[jdag]

I am having a frustrating problem with my rig where I am experiencing pretty significant distortion, even at relatively low volume levels. When strumming lower notes such as the open E or A strings, I hear a sort distorted/broken-up "residual" sound after the notes ring out. Because of the type of sound, it is most noticeable when playing clean tones.

I have not measured with an SPL meter, but on a scale of 1 to 10, playing anything on the guitar louder than about a 3-4 is troublesome. Otherwise, with just music playing directly from my iTunes library or streaming, the speakers get very loud and sound great (up to 11 as Spinal Tap would say).

My setup is:

• PRS SE Custom 24 (85/15S pickups)
• Focusrite 2i2 Interface (balanced 1/4" cables)
• MacBook (running Bias FX, S-Gear, Amplitube, Garageband)
• JBL LSR305 monitor

I have tried to troubleshoot this in countless ways, including:

• Combinations of volume and gain (guitar, amp software, interface, speakers)
• All combination of speaker settings (sensitivity settings of -10db and +4db, LF trim, HF trim)
• Different cables (guitar, interface-to-speakers)
• Different interface (cheap-o iRig knock-off using my iPhone and JamUp software)
• Pickup height adjustments and all pickup position selections
• Even tried 1 of my son's JBL 308 speakers (was able to get louder, but still experienced problem)
• Probably other things I can't recall right now!

When using my acoustic/electric guitar, I am able to play significantly louder, louder than I would generally need or want to play, before break-up (say up to 8-9 level).

I do not have a 2nd electric guitar, so I cannot check that scenario. However my nephew has an identical guitar as mine, so I will try to borrow his ASAP.

This is all leading me to assume that it is something about the SE Custom 24.

• Could it be a pickup problem?
• Or is this "normal"?
• Am I expecting too much volume from the 305 studio monitors?
• If I want/need more volume (I do), should I consider a different speaker (maybe an Alto TS210)?

Thanks in advance, John

 

[Ovibos]

Maybe power the monitors off a separate electrical circuit?

 

[dmatthews]

What happens when you switch the line/inst around on the Focusrite?

 

[Rider1260]

It sounds to me like you are clipping ( or overdriving ) the input of the device you are feeding ( Amp, software )
This would show up more on the lower strings when playing clean.
I had a similar problem with the clean channel of my MKV Boogie the low notes sounded distorted ( not in a good way )
You can usually fix this by lowering the channel level and raising the master.
also check the levels of the bass turn them down some.

 

[andy474x]

If you don't have a buffered pedal in your chain before the Focusrite, perhaps try that? Not a guarantee just a thought.

 

[Boogie]

What FX are running? Delay with modulation?

 

[László]

Your interface has an input level control. Turn it down. You’re overloading your recording interface’s input.

You may also be driving your speakers into distortion, which is a separate issue, and that will obviously be reduced by turning your interface’s input down if that’s the case. 5 inch woofers can only handle a given amount of low frequency energy before breakup. There’s a reason most guitar amps use 12 inch speakers.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with a problem with your guitar. A humbucker puts out more output level/low frequency energy than your other guitar’s pickup, especially on the bass strings. This is why a humbucker guitar drives a guitar amp into distortion sooner than a single coil guitar.

Gain staging is something every studio, no matter how expensive the gear is, deals with. Your task is to learn how to set your input and output levels.

Finally, if you want more volume, buy a guitar amp. Or buy a sound reinforcement system, like a P.A. A studio monitor is designed for reproduction, not production of guitar tones at realistic sound pressure levels. You’re using the wrong tool for the job.

 

[jdag]

Maybe power the monitors off a separate electrical circuit?

Thank you all for the tremendous input and guidance. I was just down in my basement fidgeting with every conceivable knob and button (I know...that's what she said)...and I have success!

And to Ovibos, yes, I had tried a different outlet that I know runs on a different circuit yesterday before my initial post, but thanks for that suggestion.

It is tough to narrow the issue I was having down to any 1 thing, but it most likely was input level of the Focusrite. I had it at about 1/2, and now it is down to about 1/4. That being said, I made a zillion other experimental adjustments as part of not only correcting this frustration, but also learning how everything interacts. Ultimately I have a patch saved that I can enjoy at reasonable volume levels. Of course, I will change it next time around, but that's the fun of it.

It is amazing the amount of information that is needed as part of learning to play guitar. From the mechanics of the guitar itself to the music theory to the input/output settings of the amp...it is truly a learning process like none I've ever experienced.

 

[László]

It is amazing the amount of information that is needed as part of learning to play guitar. From the mechanics of the guitar itself to the music theory to the input/output settings of the amp...it is truly a learning process like none I've ever experienced.

That’s part of the fun, right?

 

[jdag]

That’s part of the fun, right?

Fun, exciting, rewarding......frustrating, inundating, overwhelming......enjoyable, mesmerizing, addictive......costly, confusing, infuriating......repeat from beginning.............

 

[László]

Fun, exciting, rewarding......frustrating, inundating, overwhelming......enjoyable, mesmerizing, addictive......costly, confusing, infuriating......repeat from beginning.............

Well, here’s the thing; it can be pretty simple. It doesn’t need to be expensive. Forget frustration, just play and enjoy it.

Pretend you’re 14 and just have a good time. Don’t worry about your playing skills. Play simple chords and go.

 

[jdag]

Well, here’s the thing; it can be pretty simple. It doesn’t need to be expensive. Forget frustration, just play and enjoy it.

Pretend you’re 14 and just have a good time. Don’t worry about your playing skills. Play simple chords and go.

Oh yeah...I love every second of playing. As for cost and frustration...those are self-imposed...my personality!

 

[jdag]

I have an update, and a couple of follow on questions...

1) I've been able to dial out a decent amount of the distortion as described initially. I can get to a higher volume level now before the distortion.

2) I also moved the speakers much closer to me, from about 8' to about 4'. Additionally, I moved them further away from the wall. So this not only changed the overall sound and imaging of the speakers, but also gave me additional volume by being closer.

3) That being said, using an SPL meter, very unscientifically, I am able to get my guitar level to about 80-82db comfortably. Once I get above that point, I am getting the distortion/buzzing.

So my question is...80-82db...is that realistic and about what you'd expect from studio monitors using guitar? It is certainly "loud enough", but now I am in a much more confined space. And as mentioned before, I can get much louder with streaming music, the distortion is only with my guitar.

Thanks again!

 

[László]

I have an update, and a couple of follow on questions...

1) I've been able to dial out a decent amount of the distortion as described initially. I can get to a higher volume level now before the distortion.

2) I also moved the speakers much closer to me, from about 8' to about 4'. Additionally, I moved them further away from the wall. So this not only changed the overall sound and imaging of the speakers, but also gave me additional volume by being closer.

3) That being said, using an SPL meter, very unscientifically, I am able to get my guitar level to about 80-82db comfortably. Once I get above that point, I am getting the distortion/buzzing.

So my question is...80-82db...is that realistic and about what you'd expect from studio monitors using guitar? It is certainly "loud enough", but now I am in a much more confined space. And as mentioned before, I can get much louder with streaming music, the distortion is only with my guitar.

Thanks again!

Moving the speakers away from the wall (depending on location and room) will generally improve imaging, because putting them close to the back wall can often cause half-space bass room mode problems. If it sounds better, all’s good.

Studio monitors are also designed to be set up in an equilateral triangle, with your head one of the angles, and each speaker the other two. The monitors should be toed in a little as well for best imaging at the listening position. Many articles on how to do this on the web, I’m sure.

So, why does the audio seem louder without distortion when you’re listening to a record? Here’s why:

When you’re listening to produced music, you’re listening to music whose dynamics have been carefully mixed and compressed, and then mastered using limiting compressors. Generally an instrument will have light compression at the recording stage, be compressed again one or more times in the mix stage, and be further compressed in the mastering stage.

So what you get is a controlled amount of woofer cone excursion. Compression and limiting are called dynamics controls, because they reduce the dynamic range of the frequencies they’re used on.

Even if your SPL meter shows A or C-weighted volumes of 82 db, what it’s not showing you are the instantaneous transient volume peaks and concomitant instantaneous power demands associated with those peaks. Most inexpensive SPL meters don’t react quickly enough to measure those. And that’s probably what’s causing your problem.

Dynamic range is actually a bit different from volume. It is a ratio, involving intensity of sound from softest to loudest. If there’s too much dynamic range, it forces components like amps and speakers to exceed their design limits, and to distort noticeably.

The bass energy coming out of the speakers in commercial recording also sounds loud because of the psychoacoustic effect of hearing the entire song with many frequencies at once, but there is actually LESS low end cone excursion on the speaker because the dynamics have been controlled during recording and mixing.

When your guitar is going through your monitors, uncompressed, with no limiting, it has much more bass energy than any commercial recording, as I said in my first post. What this means is that you’re pushing the amplifiers in the speakers harder - they can distort as well - and you’re pushing the speaker cones harder, and speakers distort when pushed beyond what they are designed to do.

Again, your monitors simply are NOT designed to be guitar amps. They’re designed for a particular purpose. Most monitors like the ones you’re using are designed to be used at around 85 db with typical recorded material. Run them too hard with even commercially recorded music, and they’ll still distort some.

If you want studio monitors that will handle what you’re throwing at them without distortion, be prepared to spend many times the price of your set; $6,000-8,000 for a pair might get you in the ballpark for a set that won’t distort (other less expensive monitors might not distort very much, but I’m talking here about a pure, more undistorted result that reproduces what’s being thrown at it, full-range).

Sound reinforcement speakers, like the ones bands use in live shows, can also easily handle this, but at the price of less fidelity. Those are available far, far more inexpensively, and you can find sets in the price range of what you’re using. They’re designed for high sound pressure levels, and more dynamic range, but they’re still not ideal guitar amplifiers.

As I said in my first post, you’re using the wrong tool for the job. You need a guitar amplifier. You’re pounding a nail with a screwdriver; it can be done, but maybe you should use a hammer.

You can try using a compressor to reduce the dynamic range, either a plug-in or a pedal, but you will have to learn how to set it up correctly. I think you’d be a lot better off with a guitar amp when all is said and done.

 

[jdag]

As I said in my first post, you’re using the wrong tool for the job. You need a guitar amplifier. You’re pounding a nail with a screwdriver; it can be done, but maybe you should use a hammer.

I appreciate that suggestion. My "problem" is that I want to continue to use the Focusrite interface with my computer as I really enjoy the virtual amp software. It was why I purchased "plain 'ol monitors" in the first place. Ultimately, the monitors sound very very good, just not at an overly high volume.

I know I can go with an amp like the THR10 or Katana, both well regarded and versatile, and just use their native programs (or keep using a 3rd party simulator, but directly plug into the amp and not the Focusrite). Not what I necessarily prefer, but maybe that's my best bet.

I guess at the end of the day, I am not doing anything incorrectly per se. I am just expecting too much (volume) out of the studio monitors.