Need a New Amp....

[Texas_minor_blues]

So, $3K is a horse of a different color. I love spending other people's money. Let's see, single channel, $3K, loop, loud for gigging, head / cab form factor, for the uses you describe. Marshall Astoria Custom. Really, try it. I agree with Boogie that you can get by without loops...but for some stuff, loops sure make things easier. It doesn't hit your 90W requirement, but this thing is LOUD. Having said that, I get by fine with the PRS amps I have that don't have a loop, but there are things I can't do with them because of it.

I have never even heard of the Astoria Custom will look into them for sure

A $3K amp for me, would have to do one of two things. EVERYTHING very well, or a couple things so spectacularly well that it made me not miss the things it wouldn't do.

So either something like my Mark V, which can do about anything. Or an amp that perhaps had a spectacular clean and gain channels, but maybe the gain channel only went up to classic or 80s rock, and not high gain levels.

Crazy thing is I played Boogies for YEARS, had an old Mark II C+ that eventually just died on me. When the Mark V came out I was rather excited to hear they included a Mark II C voicing but it just wasn't the same

1959 SLP FTW!!!!!!!

It is already on the list! Now to find one lol

Also wanted to add that the wattage to me isn't really an issue
My old 20 watt Channel H was insanely loud.

More of a concern is blowing the windows out of the house haha

To update, I recently went on an amp hunt and tried out a few things:
Mesa Boogie Lonestar and Lonestar Special - not quite what I was looking for
Marshall Bluesbreaker: Loud, in your face and awesome...possibly blew out my back trying to lift it......
Fender Blues Deville, it was the 1st time in a really long time I played through a 4x10, definitely a contender
Matchless Chieftain: A tad more than I want to spend but really enjoyed the tone, it is one of those amps that I felt the more you crank it the better ti sounds
Matchless Clubman 30: This one was really nice too, it and the chieftain are definitely contenders

In about 2 week going to head up to Austin and check out some PRS, Badcat's and Two Rocks
suggestions are appreciated so please keep them coming. Hopefully the amps I mention here will give you guys more of an indea of what I am after

I should mention the DG 30 is definitely a contender, I have to get over the idea that it may be more amp than my chops can handle haha

-Arturo

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I do it all the time.

And that's fine, but that's a different sound. You can't pull off the dirty tone/clean reverb sound without a loop.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

...flagship amp.

I'm not sure any amp company has one single flagship amp. Except maybe Vox, but even they have the Night Train and others, which aren't so much less flagship as differently flavored.

 

[László]

And that's fine, but that's a different sound. You can't pull off the dirty tone/clean reverb sound without a loop.

Actually, it's my feeling that the best dirty tone comes from overdriving the power tubes. So if you want a great dirty sound, the reverb in a loop would still get distorted by the power tubes or be a less impressive tone with the grit coming only from preamp tubes.

This is another compromise with loops. Some players solve this with a wet/dry setup. http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/custom_shop?view=article&id=8

The wet/dry is pretty complex; I've tried it and it sounds great done right, but it's hard to do without adding its own noise and issues.

Since all I do is record, when I want that big reverb sound with a dirty amp, and want the reverb clean (my DG30 and Lone Star both have reverb built in), I turn the reverb off at the amp, mic the amp, and stick the reverb on in the mix. That could be done live via a PA if your band has one. The PA's aux return could take a 100 percent wet signal from the effects box, and be mixed in just as one might in recording.

You can also use a load box with a Thru output feeding both a mixer and your guitar cabinet, and effect the mixer channel, etc.

I realize that my thinking on this is terribly inconvenient and needlessly complicated.

But you should hear how quiet, noise-free, and hum-free my rig is, despite 3 amps being connected to my pedalboard at all times! It is literally dead quiet except for the whisper of the DG30's fans. Even I am amazed when I turn everything on (the Lone Star has a fan, but it can be turned off for recording).

The usual hum and noise you hear coming from most guitar rigs just isn't there, at ALL! And this is with all 3 of the Masters set to at least one o'clock, and usually higher. And yes, the lunatic Les (that would be me) gets tubes tested for noise and microphonics, so I only get the ones that test quietest.

Or you could just do what you do, and not spend a second thinking about my insane audio demands.

 

[Blues Trucker]

I watched a rig rundown for Billy Gibbons and his tec said Billy likes a "noisy" rig. Something about it lets him know its working? I dunno. If its good enough for Billy I guess its good enough for me........................

 

[Blues Trucker]

It is already on the list! Now to find one lol

If I had 3 grand to spend on an amp, My list would read like this.
#1 Plexi
#2 see #1

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Actually, it's my feeling that the best dirty tone comes from overdriving the power tubes. So if you want a great dirty sound, the reverb in a loop would still get distorted by the power tubes or be a less impressive tone with the grit coming only from preamp tubes.

This is another compromise with loops. Some players solve this with a wet/dry setup. http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/custom_shop?view=article&id=8

The wet/dry is pretty complex; I've tried it and it sounds great done right, but it's hard to do without adding its own noise and issues.

Since all I do is record, when I want that big reverb sound with a dirty amp, and want the reverb clean (my DG30 and Lone Star both have reverb built in), I turn the reverb off at the amp, mic the amp, and stick the reverb on in the mix. That could be done live via a PA if your band has one. The PA's aux return could take a 100 percent wet signal from the effects box, and be mixed in just as one might in recording.

That sounds way too complicated. I mean, I see why you think this should be the preferable setup, because you can. But there are those of us who want a simpler set up, and loop outs are the way to accomplish that.

The way I see it, your criticisms of loop ins and outs (prone to noise, etc.) should be the ones taken care, not avoided because of.

 

[HANGAR18]

Oh, there are any number of HXDA and Grissom model players who might disagree with that...

Not a dig at any other PRS amps which are outstanding in their own right but some amps are just not designed to do certain things. We know what a lot of these amps do very well but I think if we start comparing what each amp can't do, it seems to me that the Archon would have a pretty short list. That is why I think of it as their flagship amp, because it so so versatile. For instance, let's pretend just for the sake of argument that I didn't want a vintage Marshall tone in the style of the Allman Brothers or Jimi Hendrix. An HX/DA amp isn't versatile enough to do something completely different. It's not designed to be that versatile.

To me the HXDA invokes the same reason why I don't own any Marshall amps (sort of). To me a Marshall amp may sound really good doing one particular sound but that does qualify it as a "one trick pony" amp. Nothing wrong with that if that is the sound you want, and I do like that sound, but the Archon is a far more versatile amp imho. It's about right tool for the job mentality and it is just as important for an amp buyer to know what an amp won't do just as much as knowing what it will do. When I refer to the Archon as PRS's flagship amp, it just means that I think it is their most versatile amp, no pedals needed, and that most people in general haven't discovered just how awesome they are.

 

[László]

Not a dig at any other PRS amps which are outstanding in their own right but some amps are just not designed to do certain things. We know what a lot of these amps do very well but I think if we start comparing what each amp can't do, it seems to me that the Archon would have a pretty short list. That is why I think of it as their flagship amp, because it so so versatile. For instance, let's pretend just for the sake of argument that I didn't want a vintage Marshall tone in the style of the Allman Brothers or Jimi Hendrix. An HX/DA amp isn't versatile enough to do something completely different. It's not designed to be that versatile.

To me the HXDA invokes the same reason why I don't own any Marshall amps (sort of). To me a Marshall amp may sound really good doing one particular sound but that does qualify it as a "one trick pony" amp. Nothing wrong with that if that is the sound you want, and I do like that sound, but the Archon is a far more versatile amp imho. It's about right tool for the job mentality and it is just as important for an amp buyer to know what an amp won't do just as much as knowing what it will do. When I refer to the Archon as PRS's flagship amp, it just means that I think it is their most versatile amp, no pedals needed, and that most people in general haven't discovered just how awesome they are.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Archon! It is a completely different concept from the HXDA, as you say.

Here's what you can't do with the Archon as easily as you can with the single channel HXDA: live in the zone between clean and dirty, with an infinite number of colorations.

With a two channel amp, you're either clean, or you're dirty, or you don't really sound all that great. That middle territory between clean and dirty is much narrower. This is why single channel amps are still around 40 years after they came out with two channel amps, and why people still search for old Plexis, Voxes, and Tweeds.

You're right - single channel amps aren't as versatile. But sometimes there is no substitute for having that thing you want really being that THING you really, really want!

Then, too, my rig consists of three amps, which isn't as convenient. However, it gets the goods the way I need 'em gotten, and that's why we're all different.

I was just kidding around with the flagship thing. Whatever you think is the best product is, for you, the best product.

It's great that PRS is making amps that suit the things two channel players like, as well as amps that suit the things that single channel players like. This is never a bad thing!

 

[László]

I watched a rig rundown for Billy Gibbons and his tec said Billy likes a "noisy" rig. Something about it lets him know its working? I dunno. If its good enough for Billy I guess its good enough for me........................

So you play a fur guitar with .007s, and use glow in the dark gel picks with real tube amps, and play with Demeter silent cabs that sit offstage, too? And have a second amp for semi-clean tones because your main amps don't clean up well when you turn down the guitar? And...you hollow out all the bodies of your guitars, including the necks?

I admire his songwriting skill, his talent, and his chops.

But in matters of guitar stuff, he and I travel to the beat of different drummers.

 

[Blues Trucker]

So you play a fur guitar with .007s, and use glow in the dark gel picks with real tube amps, and play with Demeter silent cabs that sit offstage, too? And have a second amp for semi-clean tones because your main amps don't clean up well when you turn down the guitar? And...you hollow out all the bodies of your guitars, including the necks?

I admire his songwriting skill, his talent, and his chops.

But in matters of guitar stuff, he and I travel to the beat of different drummers.

I am planning on getting some Reverend Willie Mexican Lottos

 

[elvis]

Not a dig at any other PRS amps which are outstanding in their own right but some amps are just not designed to do certain things. We know what a lot of these amps do very well but I think if we start comparing what each amp can't do, it seems to me that the Archon would have a pretty short list. That is why I think of it as their flagship amp, because it so so versatile. For instance, let's pretend just for the sake of argument that I didn't want a vintage Marshall tone in the style of the Allman Brothers or Jimi Hendrix. An HX/DA amp isn't versatile enough to do something completely different. It's not designed to be that versatile.

For an amp company that makes variations on a common theme, the biggest one is the "flagship". IMO PRS makes a bunch of very different amps, so I wouldn't call Archon a flagship. It's the highest-power, but that's sort of it. Mesa users often called the Mark V their flagship, but the also have the Roadking, Royal Atlantic, Stiletto and Lone Star. None of these is "all the others rolled into one and then some".

I love that these companies don't just make "loud, louder, loudest". It makes it worth owning more than one.

 

[elvis]

I've always found that effects loops are fussy noisemakers that cause problems, so I never use them. I have one on my Lone Star 100, but I haven't even bothered to try it out. Never used the loops on my Two-Rocks, either.

I'm a person who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity or being. However, I make a special, one-time exception in the case of amplifier loops.

Loops are the product of Mephistopheles' Gremlin and Ground Loop Department, and are designed by demons and the departed souls of the Princes of Darkness who worked for Lucas' British Sports Car Electrical Division.

They are an invitation to noise and other skullduggery.

Just say no to evil loops!

On the other hand, I really don't care if someone else uses them. More work for the Guitar Amp Exorcists, who in this day and age are under-employed.

I see FX loops as a necessary evil for live gigs. As such, I have had very good results following effective troubleshooting and I don't run my amps loud enough to seriously drive the power tubes. I am a pretty experience exorcist

I wouldn't use one in the studio for sure. I'd go with nothing in the loop and add all post effects at the board. I'd love to do that live, with a power attenuator into my post FX, split into FOH and a stereo power amp to the stage speakers, but it's too much for me to lug around. So I use the loop and I'm happy enough.

 

[László]

I love that these companies don't just make "loud, louder, loudest". It makes it worth owning more than one.

+1

I buy 'em for the flavors.

 

[aristotle]

A couple of comments on the comments..

Regarding the Archon, in spite of popular opinion, you really can live quite nicely in that nether region between clean and dirty...and you can set it up so that you're doing it with both channels so that you can seamlessly jump between clean to light crunch on channel 1 using your guitar to control it, and then go from light crunch to classic dirt....so long as you don't mind looking at the gain setting on the dirty channel set at about 1. Add an exotic BB up front and you can take both to yet another level when set up like that. It's a surprisingly "organic" amp (yeah, I know I can't define that, but oh well...) on channel 2 at low gain settings.

Regarding loops, about a fifth of what I play live would sound yucky without one. The other 4/5 I could get by just fine with, but that requires futzing with stomp box controls between songs depending on how much gain was happening at the amp on a particular tune. I suppose I could get some fancy effects box thingy that could have presets, but life is too short for that for me at least. The MDT and DG30 are the only non-loop amps I play live that don't have a loops. The DG30 is easy because I only go from clean to light crunch with the amp, and use pedals beyond that...so no problem with effects up front. The MDT is more of a challenge, but I make it work.

 

[László]

A couple of comments on the comments..

Regarding the Archon, in spite of popular opinion, you really can live quite nicely in that nether region between clean and dirty...and you can set it up so that you're doing it with both channels so that you can seamlessly jump between clean to light crunch on channel 1 using your guitar to control it, and then go from light crunch to classic dirt....so long as you don't mind looking at the gain setting on the dirty channel set at about 1..

I'm not hearing that "in the zone between clean and dirty" on this demo.

I'm hearing clean, I'm hearing crunchy overdrive. I'm not hearing those transition tones.

Not that I disagree with you, you're living with the amp, and you know what it can or can't do.

 

[elvis]

I think it's a matter of taste and experience. It's had to define in a few words what that "in between" sound means to each person.

For me, I find that I cannot get what I would call an in-between sound with my archon. The closest I get is with my neck pup. But I didn't buy the amp for that. There are surely times that I need to back down the guitar volume and wish that it cleaned up a bit better, but I bought the amp specifically because I love the character of the gain channel. The fact that I can't change the character is fine by me.

I get an in-between tone on the clean channel with an OD808.

 

[László]

For me, I find that I cannot get what I would call an in-between sound with my archon. The closest I get is with my neck pup. But I didn't buy the amp for that. There are surely times that I need to back down the guitar volume and wish that it cleaned up a bit better, but I bought the amp specifically because I love the character of the gain channel. The fact that I can't change the character is fine by me

Exactly my thinking re: the Lone Star amp I have...it cleans up a bit when I roll the volume back, but it really wasn't made for in-between tones, it's a two channel amp for a reason.

And I'm good with that!

I guess when I describe in-between tones, I mean you can go back and forth between clean and OD tones within a phrase, just with firmer or lesser pick attack, that elusive "touch sensitivity" that people often rave about.

"Edge of breakup" for me is more of an elastic, fluid thing that is constantly in flux, controllable from note to note (assuming that it's your style of play, which isn't the case for everyone). But anyway, no volume knob turns, no channel switch, just controlled with the picking hand.

Next time I get around to it, I'll record a demo of what I mean, no pedals, no volume knob changes, just pick on strings.

 

[TroyBaer]

For me, I find that I cannot get what I would call an in-between sound with my archon. The closest I get is with my neck pup. But I didn't buy the amp for that. There are surely times that I need to back down the guitar volume and wish that it cleaned up a bit better, but I bought the amp specifically because I love the character of the gain channel. The fact that I can't change the character is fine by me.

I get an in-between tone on the clean channel with an OD808.

I've come at this from a slightly different perspective. For about 12 years, my main amp has been an H&K Triamp Mk. II, which has a huge palette of sounds in it ranging from Fender-y to Vox-y to Marshall-y to SLO/5150/Recto territory. I picked up an Archon 50 because IMHO it has both a better clean sound and a better modern high-gain sound that the Triamp, but it doesn't have anything in the Vox-y or Marshall-y ranges. I've considered A/B-ing the Archon with my AC15, but that's just too much gear to haul around, so I've been trying to supplement the Archon with pedals instead. Right now, I'm using a TS clone for lightly overdriven sounds and a Bearfoot Emerald Green Distortion Machine for cranked Vox sounds.

 

[Texas_minor_blues]

Still trying to focus squarely on the amp at this point. I have a good amount of options for the pedal board just need the foundation 1st.
One thing that does seem to be a consistent piece is that I seem to find myself leaning toward (as Les has pointed out regarding their awesomeness) a single channel amp. This video definitely gave some new perspectives