Loosing chops

[vchizzle]

Since we added a guitar player to our band, I feel like I’m loosing my rhythm and riffing chops. He does more of that than I do now. Maybe it’s because we’ve been in writing mode the past couple months and once we get back into running our set, it won’t seem so bad. Either way, my duties have shifted somewhat in the band and I need to get to work doing what I used to just do. Which I’m kind of annoyed about. Anyhow, just venting a bit.

 

[Huggy Love]

V, I feel your pain (and then some).

Getting old and fighting arthritis is something I have come to grips with graciously, but about 6-7 years ago I made a commitment to write more and jam less. Lead guitar was literally phased out of popular music and trying to be a jazz guitar king wasn't in my reach or a very profitable endeavor in the first place.

Loosing chops, speed, dexterity, etc. was something that came along with spending a lot of time playing chords, arranging, etc. It's a very frustrating thing for a guy that prided himself with being able to do rock lead gtr, and jazz & fusion improv, pains me much more than my physical failings.

If it's just because you haven't been able to work on it due to other responsibilities in your group, it can be fixed by either shifting back to your more chop oriented role in the band or just plain woodshedding on your own time.

..... that's a lot better than fingers gradually going numb over time, ..... you can do something about it.

 

[GuitarDrummer]

Losing chops is easy to do. My guitar teacher said that if he takes a weekend off and does not touch a guitar, he's screwed and has to work toward getting back to where he was.

 

[AP515]

For one to loose chops, they must have had them in the first place...

 

[vchizzle]

V, I feel your pain (and then some).

Getting old and fighting arthritis is something I have come to grips with graciously, but about 6-7 years ago I made a commitment to write more and jam less. Lead guitar was literally phased out of popular music and trying to be a jazz guitar king wasn't in my reach or a very profitable endeavor in the first place.

Loosing chops, speed, dexterity, etc. was something that came along with spending a lot of time playing chords, arranging, etc. It's a very frustrating thing for a guy that prided himself with being able to do rock lead gtr, and jazz & fusion improv, pains me much more than my physical failings.

If it's just because you haven't been able to work on it due to other responsibilities in your group, it can be fixed by either shifting back to your more chop oriented role in the band or just plain woodshedding on your own time.

..... that's a lot better than fingers gradually going numb over time, ..... you can do something about it.

Yeah, I get I’m kinda complaining without real reason. I can physically get back what I want, probably without a ton of work. It’s just that it used to be what I did most of the time so I didn’t need to work much at it. It’s funny, I don’t really consider myself much of lead player in terms of solos and such. It’s just not really what I’m into. I’ll do the lead thing if it’s what I feel the song calls for and it enhances the song. I’m more into creating texture and melodic hooks to grab the listeners ear. I still play a majority role in arranging and the writing process as a whole, I’m just doing less foundation work than I did when I was the only guitarist.
It’s funny, I had a similar thing happen when I was between bands for awhile. I was concentrating more on writing and arrangement and less on the physical aspect of playing parts. My actual guitar parts were less complicated because I was working on writing multiple parts to be layered and arranging them.
I know I can get back or improve from where I was prior to adding another guitarist, it’s just that I have to work to maintain what I do less of. Where before, I was just doing it all the time, so the chops were there without the extra work.

 

[vchizzle]

Losing chops is easy to do. My guitar teacher said that if he takes a weekend off and does not touch a guitar, he's screwed and has to work toward getting back to where he was.

Well, I’m not quite that gifted, so a weekend off isn’t going to affect me much.
This has been over a period of a few months. We haven’t played a show since October. Been in the studio recording and writing new material during that time, so that’s where the focus has been. The last week we’ve revisited songs from the set and it’s evident some of my rhythm and right hand dexterity has suffered from not using it. Compounded by the fact that I do less of that than I did when I was the lone guitarist.

 

[Huggy Love]

I don’t really consider myself much of lead player in terms of solos and such. It’s just not really what I’m into. I’ll do the lead thing if it’s what I feel the song calls for and it enhances the song. I’m more into creating texture and melodic hooks to grab the listeners ear.

Well then it'll be easier for you. Playing prearranged melodic passages does take skill, and you can lose some of the preciseness, but it comes back more easily than improv, where you have to flow with open musical thoughts and apply them to the fretboard in realtime. That takes a lot of woodshedding to get right.

The blessing is that playing a melody stays with listeners more and not everybody can play melodies well, players that do ... are ahead of the pack.

 

[markd21]

I have lost "chops" over the last few years. I have arthritis now, and some of the first stuff to go was the sweep picking, fast string skipping, wicked fast scalar runs. It was tough at first, but I realized it was ok....my music really didn't "need" it. I developed a new style. Cool. Lately though the hands are cramped - shoot, even typing this response has my knuckles wanting to curl. Had a gig Saturday night....spent some time during the day warming up and running through some of the more complicated riffs and lead licks. In that course of time I felt reasonably limber, however once show time rolled around I was struggling to play some of the more complicated stuff. It has gotten VERY frustrating. I am gonna try some Ben-Gay on the hands this weekend - hopefully it helps, lol. If this keeps up, it might be time to just play for "fun" and do more recording - put myself in playing situations where I am not gonna be "on the spot".....

 

[bodia]

Man, I'm with you guys on the loss of chops! I've spent too much time buying sh!t, trading stuff, selling gear over the last 30 years that I've completely lost it!

 

[CVS]

My sympathies to all of you that are slowly losing it because of older age (and especially medical) issues. Being over 6X myself, I have had similar issues. It really is "use it or lose it" once you get over 60. My biggest issue however has been my mind. I can figure out an arrangement for a song today and by tomorrow, I may not remember what song it was that I arranged, much less how to play it. I now write everything down. I know quite a few songs, but if I have not played them at least once in the week prior playing in public, I won't play them, because the risk of a "senior moment" is just too high.

With all that said, I am very thankful that I don't have any serious medical issues (especially ones that would make it harder to play music) and that I have a loving and understanding wife who puts up with my "stuff"!

My best to all of you.

 

[GuitarDrummer]

I haven't necessarily lost my chops, but I have lost everything resembling confidence, even though I've been playing guitar since 1977, and have been drumming and playing trumpet and other instruments for even longer.

From grade school through high school, college, and the stages in Hollywood on down, I've always been a willing performer. In the late 80s, I was playing gigs as a drummer, bass, guitar, and keyboard player.

But then something happened along the way. Long story short, I got scammed on social networking in late 2013. It ruined my life. I lost just about everything, including my "gigging" band. A labrum tear in early 2014 made sure I'd not be drumming for a few years, so I focused on guitar lessons.

These guitar lessons have put my head in a weird spot. The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know. I've come to accept that the guitar is an instrument that is both eternal and infinite, in that nobody will ever master it.

[and yes, I will ask my guitar teacher about this issue during the next lesson]

I'm afraid to play guitar at the guitar shop, out of fear that someone will hear. After all, the competitive shredders and other "widdily-woo" artists are always better. I fear playing at the open jam, grossly imagining that someone will make a request for something I cannot play, and that will be the end.

Now, after playing out for all of these decades, with a few years off and some lessons, there is that horrible question in my mind.

When will I be good enough?

 

[veinbuster]

I can figure out an arrangement for a song today and by tomorrow, I may not remember what song it was that I arranged, much less how to play it.

I do that all of the time. I have a GoPro sitting right beside me, but most of the time I don’t turn it on. I can still usually find my way back to a considered arrangement, but frequently something that was accidentally good while winging it is gone forever - which is why my wife bought me the video recorder.

My hands are starting to be a bit less responsive. My style is changing somewhat as a result. This usually shows itself in choosing fingering that is less sensitive to a missed note, which in turn means I’m shifting the bias more to fingerstyle than pick.

 

[vchizzle]

For one to loose chops, they must have had them in the first place...

Well then it'll be easier for you. Playing prearranged melodic passages does take skill, and you can lose some of the preciseness, but it comes back more easily than improv, where you have to flow with open musical thoughts and apply them to the fretboard in realtime. That takes a lot of woodshedding to get right.

The blessing is that playing a melody stays with listeners more and not everybody can play melodies well, players that do ... are ahead of the pack.

I have lost "chops" over the last few years. I have arthritis now, and some of the first stuff to go was the sweep picking, fast string skipping, wicked fast scalar runs. It was tough at first, but I realized it was ok....my music really didn't "need" it. I developed a new style. Cool. Lately though the hands are cramped - shoot, even typing this response has my knuckles wanting to curl. Had a gig Saturday night....spent some time during the day warming up and running through some of the more complicated riffs and lead licks. In that course of time I felt reasonably limber, however once show time rolled around I was struggling to play some of the more complicated stuff. It has gotten VERY frustrating. I am gonna try some Ben-Gay on the hands this weekend - hopefully it helps, lol. If this keeps up, it might be time to just play for "fun" and do more recording - put myself in playing situations where I am not gonna be "on the spot".....

Losing ability because of age is rough. I feel for everyone in that position. Makes me feel a little silly for starting this thread. The frustration part is hard. But that’s a mental hurdle as much as physical. There are those of us who no matter how hard we try, some of that physical speed and technical prowess doesn’t seem to come.
Aging can be a tough thing obviously. On the other hand, it will likely happen to all of us at some point. I think the key is to adapt to what you can do and work to improve on things. Overcoming mental obstacles can be even harder sometimes. I think the key is to enjoy what you’re given and not let the “can’ts” bring you down. Do your best and enjoy it. Wanting more is human nature. It’s the fine line of using that to better yourself or drive yourself crazy that is the tricky part. Enjoyment and having fun is the most important part. I’ll stop whining and get to work.

 

[markd21]

Man, I feel you on the "when will be good enough?" thing. It has been 33 years of writing/recording/gigging. There are still people WAY better than me, lol. You are "good enough" when you feel confident to play in front of others.

However - I no longer do many open jams because it turned into (at least locally) getting up and jamming on a cover. That's not my bag, and never has been. I am an improviser - give me the key and the rundown of the progression and I'm good to go. Joining bands - I am not good at following and watching hands. Give me the key and actually tell me the chords you are using. I will learn the material in a day or two. Give me a tab, I have to write it out - looking at all those little numbers and lines frustrates me - especially chords tabbed out!! LOL, just write what chord it is!!!!

It's all perspective. One of the reasons I write my own music is because I always found it too difficult to learn somebody else's creation. I'd rather create my own. I have always admired cover dudes that can pull it off well. That's not my bag. I can write a tune everyday - it'll take some time to develop it past a simple structure, but the ideas flow. Ask me to jam on a cover tune - I go into a panic!!!!

 

[vchizzle]

I haven't necessarily lost my chops, but I have lost everything resembling confidence, even though I've been playing guitar since 1977, and have been drumming and playing trumpet and other instruments for even longer.

From grade school through high school, college, and the stages in Hollywood on down, I've always been a willing performer. In the late 80s, I was playing gigs as a drummer, bass, guitar, and keyboard player.

But then something happened along the way. Long story short, I got scammed on social networking in late 2013. It ruined my life. I lost just about everything, including my "gigging" band. A labrum tear in early 2014 made sure I'd not be drumming for a few years, so I focused on guitar lessons.

These guitar lessons have put my head in a weird spot. The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know. I've come to accept that the guitar is an instrument that is both eternal and infinite, in that nobody will ever master it.

[and yes, I will ask my guitar teacher about this issue during the next lesson]

I'm afraid to play guitar at the guitar shop, out of fear that someone will hear. After all, the competitive shredders and other "widdily-woo" artists are always better. I fear playing at the open jam, grossly imagining that someone will make a request for something I cannot play, and that will be the end.

Now, after playing out for all of these decades, with a few years off and some lessons, there is that horrible question in my mind.

When will I be good enough?

Confidence only comes by risk taking. Even small risks. You do realize how many guitarists that “aren’t good” play in music stores, right? That can be inexperience or any number of things. My advice is to take that step first. Play in a store. You don’t need to be loud or putting yourself on display. Maybe start playing electric unplugged. Then really quiet through and amp. Small steps. The other part is, sometimes you just have to not care. The mental hurdle. Why care about what anyone in a store thinks of you? Their opinion doesn’t affect your joy of playing guitar. You’re playing guitar to enjoy yourself, right? F@$& everyone else.

 

[Guitarsan]

I’ll take feeling over chops any day. See: David Gilmour

 

[markd21]

Losing ability because of age is rough. I feel for everyone in that position. Makes me feel a little silly for starting this thread. The frustration part is hard. But that’s a mental hurdle as much as physical. There are those of us who no matter how hard we try, some of that physical speed and technical prowess doesn’t seem to come.
Aging can be a tough thing obviously. On the other hand, it will likely happen to all of us at some point. I think the key is to adapt to what you can do and work to improve on things. Overcoming mental obstacles can be even harder sometimes. I think the key is to enjoy what you’re given and not let the “can’ts” bring you down. Do your best and enjoy it. Wanting more is human nature. It’s the fine line of using that to better yourself or drive yourself crazy that is the tricky part. Enjoyment and having fun is the most important part. I’ll stop whining and get to work.

Nah, dude - no reason to feel silly!! The kicker for me is that I just turned 44. I have seizures too, lol. I wasn't born with them - had the first when I was 32. I suffered a MASSIVE head injury and lost oxygen. Recovering from that one was tough. I lost fine motor skills - handwriting became difficult. I had to relearn it!! Playing guitar was nearly impossible!! But, you are right - the mental hurdle there was one I had to jump. I am a teacher - I need to write, lol. I had a band on an indie label. I needed to play. I worked really hard and relearned a lot. Some of my chord vocabulary disappeared - those Min 9 add 13th chords, lol. Who needs them anyway???

In the end, the ability to play returned faster than expected. But, some stuff was lost. Instead of being totally bummed by what I couldn't do, I stayed excited about what I could still do. It's just about being able to accept where you are in the moment - like recording songs or an album. You ALWAYS hear what you could have done differently or better - but those releases/recordings are where you and the song were in that moment in time. Music is an ever evolving thing - seasons change, skills improve and devolve simultaneously. Dude, I get totally frustrated, but I love music and guitars and interacting with other musicians that I just constantly have to be pleased with where I am in the moment.

Now the flip side of that.....

My playing Saturday night was embarrassingly bad. We had opened for Graham Bonnet. He currently has Joey Taffola as his guitarist. That's a dude I greatly admired. We shot the breeze during load in...got to hang during sound check, etc. It was a cool opportunity to play in front of a guitar oriented crowd. I was up there with my MC58. All sorts of dudes were asking about the guitar and were excited to hear it. While nobody was mean afterward, it was still one of those choking moments where I was a bit depressed on Sunday. It may not have even been too noticeable, but to me it was a disaster because I was not playing at my normal level. But, today is Tuesday. Life went forward. The world didn't stop. This week, Ben-Gay is going in the gig bag!!! We'll see what happens next!!! Hopefully it works because February has us doing out-of-towners and a Festival!!! I gotta be on - or start modifying my parts to be easier to play!!!

 

[CVS]

I do that all of the time. I have a GoPro sitting right beside me, but most of the time I don’t turn it on. I can still usually find my way back to a considered arrangement, but frequently something that was accidentally good while winging it is gone forever - which is why my wife bought me the video recorder.

My hands are starting to be a bit less responsive. My style is changing somewhat as a result. This usually shows itself in choosing fingering that is less sensitive to a missed note, which in turn means I’m shifting the bias more to fingerstyle than pick.

Interesting comments about your hands. I am in the same boat, especially with chords (which is surprising to me, I thought I would be having more problems with licks). It is almost like I have to play a difficult passage once, just so I can stretch out my fingers. I probably need to do more finger stretching

 

[CVS]

Well then it'll be easier for you. Playing prearranged melodic passages does take skill, and you can lose some of the preciseness, but it comes back more easily than improv, where you have to flow with open musical thoughts and apply them to the fretboard in realtime. That takes a lot of woodshedding to get right.

The blessing is that playing a melody stays with listeners more and not everybody can play melodies well, players that do ... are ahead of the pack.

Interesting you should mention this. I have had people ask me what is the most difficult music/ song to play & my answer is any music that has a long "scripted" melody that I need to A) learn and then B) remember. Great examples of this are just about anything Acoustic Alchemy does.

 

[markd21]

I’ll take feeling over chops any day. See: David Gilmour

But even playing with "feeling" requires a level of chops - maybe not 64th notes at 215 bpm....but excellent vibrato is a skill that takes practice. Bending notes properly so you aren't sharp/flat, or sour sounding as you dig into the note takes skill. "Chops" exist at all approaches - shredding and playing with "feeling".