I want (need) a louder acoustic guitar!

[shinksma]

I play in a band that at times performs completely unplugged.

The other main guitarist is a rhythm guitarist with a strong strumming sound, and he doesn't really know how to back off the volume when strumming, shall we say, and when it comes time for me to do a tasteful solo, no-one can hear me and my Angelus SE Custom. He's got a well-restrained volume for lead break accompaniment when he finger picks.

I try to boost my acoustic sound power by picking closer to the bridge, invoking more double stops, and less noodling high on the neck. But when I see other bands play, and the guitarist taking a solo benefits from the other guitarist(s) backing off their volume, I wonder what else I can do. Yes, I'm trying to coach the other guy, but it will be a process.

So I usually bring along a little battery-powered amp to help, even though it kinda breaks the rule of trying to go completely unplugged.

Now my Angelus SE Custom with rosewood body has a different tonal profile from the more common mahogany body. To me it sounds a little sweeter than hog-body acoustics, but I think I'm paying that tonal price through volume loss - i.e. my mids are being scooped a little. Or maybe I just have a quieter guitar, and any other random Angelus SE Custom might have a bigger sound. It doesn't seem like a particularly quiet guitar.

I'm wondering whether a hog-body acoustic would help? Or a particular set of strings? I usually use bronze or phosphor-bronze round wounds.

I'm also considering straying from the PRS fold and trying out other major brands, just to compare. But I do like the neck profile on my PRS.

I've seen some really nice resonator guitars recently that might work well for solo accompaniment - I'd use my Angelus SE for when I do the strumming...

Suggestions on any of this? I think a trip to my local GC or Sam Ash is in order, just to do some direct comparisons to my guitar.

Our unplugged set from Sunday at a festival was video-recorded (with audio), so when I get a hold of that it might help demonstrate to the whole band any issues with unbalanced sound, and prompt some discussions of how it can be addressed.

 

[mad monk]

I'm in MD, where are you? I have an all hog SE Angelus I'd be happy to let you try/compare.

 

[Maertl513]

As first shot, I installed Power Pins on my 23 years old Seagull S(6) resulting in more brightness, better tone separation of the strings, and easier re-stringing.

It´s said that those Power Pins deliver better transfer of vibrations, too.
Maybe it is a suitable suggestion for you, @shinksma.

 

[shinksma]

I'm in MD, where are you? I have an all hog SE Angelus I'd be happy to let you try/compare.

I'm in Central Florida, Orlando area. Thanks for the offer, though!

Maertl513, I will look into those Power Pins.

 

[Maertl513]

If you're not convinced by them, it's reversible.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I always thought Ovations were louder, but they're louder in a specific register -- where it counts. Maybe you want to look up similarly bright guitars?

 

[shinksma]

I'll try to get to a guitar store and play a few different models I might not normally consider. And if nothing jumps out at me, I'll try the Power Pins.

This is starting to drift into non-PRS model territory, so I'll stop typing here and look elsewhere for suggestions on other brands to compare (Taylor and Martin being obvious ones...).

 

[bluefade]

I have an OVATION ADAMAS . It's the only acoustic guitar I own . It slices an audio mix like a hot knife through butter. If it's good enough for LARRY CORYELL....

 

[shinksma]

So, just to do a little follow up for anyone in the future exploring the same issue:

(Hello, people of the future!)

At band practice the other night I did an experiment where the other guy strummed while I noodled, first in our usual config where he plays his guitar, and I play mine, and then we swapped guitars. Strumming he sounded about the same volume whether he played his guitar or mine (the aforementioned SE Angelus Custom) - his was a little louder over mine, but not a huge amount. But my solo noodling was much louder on his guitar.

And yesterday I stopped into a Sam Ash with my fiancee and we test drove a bunch of Martins, Taylors and Breedloves (and a couple of resonator guitars from Dobro and Gretsch).

The loudest guitars were the resonators, but were really honky, of course.

The loudest all-wood guitar was a Sapele-body Spruce top Ebony fretboard Taylor, by a good margin.

The hog bodies were all louder than the rosewood when it came to single-note noodling. The loudest Breedlove I tried was a cedar-topped hog body - it sounded a bit louder than a rosewood body/spruce top for noodling, but not by a lot.

btw, Most of the Martins had Richlite fretboards, and I did not like that feel.

My conclusion: a rosewood body enhances the lower end, creating a richer sound at the expense of midrange and a bit of lower top end, which is fine for strumming or for plugged-in work or in the studio. Mahogany bodies seem to have a little much punch or honk in the midrange, which makes them ideal for purely acoustic situations, and the soloing doesn't get lost in the mix.

I need to find a hog body PRS to try - I think my local GC might have one.

 

[Boogie]

My conclusion: a rosewood body enhances the lower end, creating a richer sound at the expense of midrange and a bit of lower top end...

By expanding this analysis to include mahogany and spruce tops, that answers 90+% of the "A10E or A20E or A30E" questions that keep popping up. Rosewood bodies warm up things slightly, and a mahogany top takes it to the next level. Of the three, a mahogany body + spruce top typically projects better. Typically.

 

[rugerpc]

I don't want to discourage you from buying a new guitar, but...

Isn't the real problem here the other guitarist? Shouldn't he be working on learning to play with dynamics? There is way more to playing than just banging away at the same (loud) volume all the time. It is true for solo play and doubly true for group (band) play. I understand that there are egos and in-band competition. But what happened to the idea that as a band, the overall sound comes first?

Your bandmate needs to step up and moderate his aggressive playing when the focus of the song is supposed to elsewhere, whether it be when the singer is singing or another band member is being featured in a solo.

Band members buying progressively louder instruments or playing progressively louder so they can compete or be heard over boorish other band members leads to inappropriate volumes for audiences and is such a an easy fix... ...so long as the focus is the band not ego, lack of talent or stubbornness.

 

[László]

My maple bodied Tonare Grand is huge sounding. Bright, quite room-filling, and cuts through a dense mix.

That's why I bought it.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

You may also want to try harder picks, like a stone one or a quarter.

 

[django49]

Speaking of harder picks, I once used very thin and flexible picks. As would be expected, that worked well when I wanted to be a lower key player. Once I tried V-picks, I cannot go back. I typically use a 3mm thick pick, but also appreciate the difference of the even thicker versions. My playing is no longer "soft"....Unless I WANT it to be.....In which case I (sometimes) fingerpick.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I don't want to discourage you from buying a new guitar, but...

Isn't the real problem here the other guitarist? Shouldn't he be working on learning to play with dynamics? There is way more to playing than just banging away at the same (loud) volume all the time. It is true for solo play and doubly true for group (band) play. I understand that there are egos and in-band competition. But what happened to the idea that as a band, the overall sound comes first?

Your bandmate needs to step up and moderate his aggressive playing when the focus of the song is supposed to elsewhere, whether it be when the singer is singing or another band member is being featured in a solo.

Band members buying progressively louder instruments or playing progressively louder so they can compete or be heard over boorish other band members leads to inappropriate volumes for audiences and is such a an easy fix... ...so long as the focus is the band not ego, lack of talent or stubbornness.

Agreed, but he mentioned early that he's working on that aspect, too, and it's beginning to appear that the other bandmember is incapable of playing "accompaniment".

 

[shinksma]

Isn't the real problem here the other guitarist? Shouldn't he be working on learning to play with dynamics? There is way more to playing than just banging away at the same (loud) volume all the time. It is true for solo play and doubly true for group (band) play. I understand that there are egos and in-band competition. But what happened to the idea that as a band, the overall sound comes first?

Your bandmate needs to step up and moderate his aggressive playing when the focus of the song is supposed to elsewhere, whether it be when the singer is singing or another band member is being featured in a solo.

Indeed, as Dusty Chalk indicated, I'm working on that. He has only been playing serious guitar for a few years (well, maybe going on 7 by now?), despite owning a guitar for decades (your typical high school or college kid buys guitar, learns a few chords, puts it away until someone else re-ignites the spark story). What is weird is he plays with soft thin picks (red 0.50mm tortex or similar), and still manages to belt out some volume. His main guitar does have the nickname of "Boomer", though - it is a naturally very loud guitar.

But this issue exists even with someone else on rhythm guitar on a softer instrument; it is just worst-case-scenario with him. Even with another bandmate on guitar and going soft in the lead break I have a hard time projecting into the audience. My Angelus Custom is a really nice sounding guitar, plugged in or acoustic, but acoustically it is "subtle" for lead break stuff, shall we say.

Oh, and I play acoustic guitars with a "hard" pick - a tortex purple (1.14mm, I think?). I've tried even harder picks but I like that ever so slight give I get with them. I play my electrics with the yellow (0.73mm?) tortex picks.

We only play pure acoustic maybe three weekends a year, so I have time until our next all-acoustic festival in the Spring.

And my fiancee did take a picture of the price tag when I said I liked that particular Taylor, so maybe I'll have one by then...

 

[Boogie]

If you're going into the PA, I'd consider using something like an EP Booster with the treble boost enabled. You can keep the gain boost subtle, around 9:00-10:00, but the combination with more treble might bring a lift over the mix. It could also add a challenge for feedback control. But at least it is an inexpensive option...as opposed to replacing the guitar.

 

[shinksma]

If you're going into the PA, I'd consider using something like an EP Booster with the treble boost enabled. You can keep the gain boost subtle, around 9:00-10:00, but the combination with more treble might bring a lift over the mix. It could also add a challenge for feedback control. But at least it is an inexpensive option...as opposed to replacing the guitar.

We have no issues plugged in - this is purely an unplugged situation "problem". I have a whole pedalboard of stuff to get my notes heard in the mix when we have a PA (plus I use an acoustic amp as my own private monitor...)...