Harsh High End

[colinkanders]

I have an S2 Mira, SE277, and SE277 Semi-Hollow Soapbar (all 2016 models). I started collecting them last year, and got the first one (the semi-hollow) around the same time as I got a new amp - Blackstar HT40 Club.

At that time, I found that the high end was rather harsh on the clean channel, which has only a single tone knob and can't take away the harshness without dulling the overall tone. As I picked up the other guitars, I noticed that this is consistent across all three, so I assumed the amp was the problem; however, tonight I plugged in an old Ibanez AX7 and the high end was absolutely fine.

1. Would adjusting the height of the 'high end' side of the pickups fix this?
2. Is it weird that all three have this same issue? They all have different pickups, the semi-hollow was purchased from a different store than the other two, and the Mira was special-ordered (so it wasn't touched by customers or staff).

 

[László]

I have an S2 Mira, SE277, and SE277 Semi-Hollow Soapbar (all 2016 models). I started collecting them last year, and got the first one (the semi-hollow) around the same time as I got a new amp - Blackstar HT40 Club.

At that time, I found that the high end was rather harsh on the clean channel, which has only a single tone knob and can't take away the harshness without dulling the overall tone. As I picked up the other guitars, I noticed that this is consistent across all three, so I assumed the amp was the problem; however, tonight I plugged in an old Ibanez AX7 and the high end was absolutely fine.

1. Would adjusting the height of the 'high end' side of the pickups fix this?
2. Is it weird that all three have this same issue? They all have different pickups, the semi-hollow was purchased from a different store than the other two, and the Mira was special-ordered (so it wasn't touched by customers or staff).

Things to think about...

Adjusting the pickups can be a good idea.

Have you tried the tone controls on your guitar?

Most folks don’t think PRSes have a harsh high end, but maybe a pickup swap would be better with that amp.

How do your guitars in question sound with other amps?

 

[colinkanders]

I have tried the tone controls and ran into the same problem as the tone knob on the amp - have to turn it down too far. I did play the two baritones through a Line 6 Spider III before I got rid of it. The high end wasn't as harsh, but was still noticeably pronounced. That amp tended to make any guitar a little muddy, so it kinda helped fix the problem in a way.

I'll find some time this weekend to adjust the pickups. If that doesn't work, I'll have to look into swapping them.

 

[shinksma]

So I knew nothing about that particular Blackstar amp (or any Blackstar amp, really) before seeing this thread, but just read a review. For the clean channel, are you using the Voice switch in the "Boutique" or "Modern" mode? Maybe try the other one? (I'm thinking Boutique should sound better, based on review info...)

Review I read:

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Blackstar_HT_Club_40_Amp_Review

 

[colinkanders]

So I knew nothing about that particular Blackstar amp (or any Blackstar amp, really) before seeing this thread, but just read a review. For the clean channel, are you using the Voice switch in the "Boutique" or "Modern" mode? Maybe try the other one? (I'm thinking Boutique should sound better, based on review info...)

Review I read:

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Blackstar_HT_Club_40_Amp_Review

Blackstar did a big push in my area (Southwestern Ontario) last year, so their amps started appearing in a lot of the non-chain music stores. I played a few different ones and like the versatility the amps offer. Certainly worth taking one for a spin if you get the chance.

The issue happens on both voicings, although it is a little less with Boutique since it's a bit warmer. Unfortunately, this mode isn't great if you're looking for a pure clean sound (even with the preamp all the way down, there is still some breakup).

 

[shinksma]

Well, the soapbars on the SE277 SH are going to have a bit more mid-range push, which might be the harshness you are hearing. And the S2 Mira also has a bit more mid-range than your average PRS guitar, from what I understand. No, I did not just call PRS guitars average!

I dunno, maybe get/borrow an EQ pedal and put that in front of the amp, and see if you can tweak one or more freq bands to suit your tastes, and you can then turn it off for other guitars or when you switch to the lead/gain channel.

 

[garrett]

I don't think it's weird at all. When I had an S2 Singlecut Standard, I always had to turn the treble up compared to my other guitars. Some guitars live in different tonal zones than others. This is why I'm leery of amps with only a single tone control.

Definitely try lowering the treble side of your pickups and/or the treble side pole pieces. That can have a huge impact on tone and it's free. If that doesn't do it, I personally would look for an amp with more versatile EQ controls rather than going down the pickup swap rabbit hole (far from free).

 

[Michael_DK]

Do you hear the harsh quality on all strings? I strongly assume it's most pronounced on the higher strings, but you may hear elements of the same on the middle and lower strings as well.

How is the balance from low strings to high strings?

Which strings do you use? How often do you change them?

 

[colinkanders]

Thanks for all the input! I've got a few things to try out with various degrees of cost and effort. Time to Tinker!

Do you hear the harsh quality on all strings? I strongly assume it's most pronounced on the higher strings, but you may hear elements of the same on the middle and lower strings as well.

How is the balance from low strings to high strings?

Which strings do you use? How often do you change them?

The high end is accentuated on all strings (which I don't mind overall), but it's primarily the F# and B (B and E on the Mira) that are harsh. I use D'Addario XLs: 14-68 and 10-46, and I change them every 6-8 weeks.

 

[dogrocketp]

You can try nickel strings. You might really like the sound. The pickup adjustment usually works for me. Start by lowering the pole pieces and not the whole pickup.

 

[Rider1260]

If you are finding your highs a bit harsh you might consider your setup if the strings are buzzing just a bit this can sound like harsh high end check your neck relief
or try raising the action a taste you will find a smoother clearer high end

 

[grausch]

You can try nickel strings. You might really like the sound. The pickup adjustment usually works for me. Start by lowering the pole pieces and not the whole pickup.

After reading about roundwound pure nickels, I tried a set of Pyramids and almost all my guitars have them on now. They do change the tone a little by removing some high end, but it only affects the wound strings - the unwound strings are still regular steel. The G-string could also have a little lower output and the pole piece may need to be adjusted. I didn't do any of that though - I just raised the action to remove fret buzz and noticed that I liked the tone of the guitar more that way.

 

[Boogie]

A pro-grade amp is the only fitting compliment to a pro-grade guitar. I’m not disrespecting anyone’s taste, choice, or style, just stating that the amp is an often overlooked aspect of the signal path. Tonal nuances should be allowed to come through the amp, IMO, and much of that can’t be well controlled until you get to a certain build-level of amp. A lack of tonal control with the amp is a show stopping situation.

 

[László]

A pro-grade amp is the only fitting compliment to a pro-grade guitar. I’m not disrespecting anyone’s taste, choice, or style, just stating that the amp is an often overlooked aspect of the signal path. Tonal nuances should be allowed to come through the amp, IMO, and much of that can’t be well controlled until you get to a certain build-level of amp. A lack of tonal control with the amp is a show stopping situation.

As usual, Boogie is right on. An electric guitar is only as good as the amp it’s played through, and of course, all amps add their own tone to the mix.

Just for grins, I’d take one of the guitars to a store to see if it’s the guitars or the amp that’s causing tones you don’t care for.

 

[Atomic]

The black star is probably voiced to have a bit more high end presence than other amps. Presumably because most of what will get played through it is HO humbuckers which can be on the muddy side.

Without delving into changing things on a component level in the tone stack of the amp you can probably round off the high end a bit by doing a preamp tube swap for something like a JJ. They tend to attenuate the high end a bit. A speaker swap will probably do even more than that.

There is nothing wrong with the blackstar amps, and I take a bit of an issue with the whole "you need a 'boutique' (read "expensive") amp for your expensive guitar" mentality. Though it is true to an extent that you get what you pay for when it comes to amps, and the blackstars are not PRS core or Hughes and Kettner level amps they are far from low end and they can sound good. They just need some tweaking.

I have had (and built) many amp especially in my touring days so I can speak with some authority on this subject; with enough determination you can make anything work. I once played a show in front of 1,000 with a Roland MicroCube plugged into my 412 because my main amp popped a tube. It wasn't ideal but with some tweaking it sounded pretty darn good.

edit:
I just realized I typed "10,000." yeah, okay. I was probably dreaming about how much money I'd like to have in my bank account.

 

[dogrocketp]

Pro doesn`t have to mean expensive. I`ve done a ton of gigs with a Tech21 Trademark 60 that probably cost me 220 used 10 years ago. When I don`t wanna lug my 60 lb PRS amp, it`s just fine. I`m going to use it for a run of "the Addams Family" that starts in 3 weeks. With a PRS electric and acoustic of course.

 

[László]

It’s true that you can get by just fine with an amp that isn’t a “Ta-Dah!” amp, but...

I’ve always felt that the amp is the guitar’s partner. It’s good to pair a great guitar with a great amp, if that’s at all possible.

I realize it isn’t always possible, but it sure helps to balance both sides of the equation.

 

[Boogie]

... I take a bit of an issue with the whole "you need a 'boutique' (read "expensive") amp for your expensive guitar" mentality.

I was trying to carefully word around that perception, which is not - at all - what I meant. The flexibility in an Egnater Tweaker 15 head (used value about $200) is WAY beyond that of some amps 2 - 5x it’s cost. The point is, to judge a good guitar by the results through a mediocre amp is an injustice. There’s no other way to put that, but I mean it with friendship and respect.

 

[colinkanders]

UPDATE:
Armed with all of the information and ideas on this thread, I hooked up my Mira directly to the amp and set the tone (using both the amp and guitar controls) based on the low E string. I then gave a listen and found that the high end got a little more pronounced with each string, so I adjusted the pickup height on the high E side and managed to improve the harshness significantly, though it still wasn't perfect on the B and E strings. If I lowered it any more, the volume balance of the strings started to get out of whack, so I went with the less-than-perfect setting.

Then I put my pedals between the guitar and the amp...all true bypass pedals...while there aren't many, there are enough to trim out the last bit of harshness from the high end without muddying the sound!

I followed the same process with the baritones and achieved the same results! All is well now

 

[Atomic]

I was trying to carefully word around that perception, which is not - at all - what I meant. The flexibility in an Egnater Tweaker 15 head (used value about $200) is WAY beyond that of some amps 2 - 5x it’s cost. The point is, to judge a good guitar by the results through a mediocre amp is an injustice. There’s no other way to put that, but I mean it with friendship and respect.

Nah man I know you were just trying to be an elitist meanie!