'Core' Production Acoustic

[-vic]

I want an acoustic with birds on it but I'm simply not going to buy a private stock and I will not buy a import acoustic.

Is there any buzz on when we'll be able to buy a US made PRS acoustic in the $2500-$4500 range again? Does anyone know why the tonare grande went out of production? Were they just not able to sell them?

as a side note to stir people up... Tradition is stupid; Why don't they put their locking tuners on the acoustics? I don't think any reasonable person would accept the idea that locking tuners would be bad for the tone.

 

[László]

I want an acoustic with birds on it but I'm simply not going to buy a private stock and I will not buy a import acoustic.

There's talk that additional employees are being hired by PRS for a lower priced line of USA acoustics. If you can't wait, then don't buy an import, and don't buy a Private Stock and simply look elsewhere.

Does anyone know why the tonare grande went out of production? Were they just not able to sell them?

It never went out of production. It, like the Angelus, went to Private Stock because they are very expensive guitars to make.

as a side note to stir people up... Tradition is stupid; Why don't they put their locking tuners on the acoustics? I don't think any reasonable person would accept the idea that locking tuners would be bad for the tone.

As a side note to stir you up, tradition isn't always stupid. If you've ever talked with Paul Smith you know he's a reasonable guy, and he does what he does for reasons of tone most of the time. Acoustic players also don't much care for locking tuners, but look, if it's a big deal and you want locking tuners buy them yourself and put them on aftermarket.

Or you could just not be so arrogant and demanding. Who the hell are you beyond being just another dude with demands and an agenda?

 

[jas]

Vic

Not sure about your $2500-$4500 range for acoustics, but I actually having locking tuners on one of my acoustics. The Gotoh Delta 510's. They are great and look great. I've heard no effect on the tone, positive or negative.

 

[-vic]

Good points.

All apologies for offending you. That being said I'm dismayed that you would interpret what I wrote as being so hostile. I don't have it out for you or anyone else. It is well within my right to have an opinion and the opinion I shared wasn't all that outrageous. Either you are having a bad day, are looking for an argument, or have some other issue that I am unable to identify. As for calling me arrogant, fine. If I am arrogant in your mind then it is fair to assume that in my mind that you are a forum fool on a hair trigger looking for an excuse to go off on someone. You don't know me and I don't know you. I have no personal stake in your opinion of me but if you're ever interested in engaging in a civil discussion I'm willing to have one, otherwise the Monty Python argument room is over there --->

-Vic

There's talk that additional employees are being hired by PRS for a lower priced line of USA acoustics. If you can't wait, then don't buy an import, and don't buy a Private Stock and simply look elsewhere.



It never went out of production. It, like the Angelus, went to Private Stock because they are very expensive guitars to make.



As a side note to stir you up, tradition isn't always stupid. If you've ever talked with Paul Smith you know he's a reasonable guy, and he does what he does for reasons of tone most of the time. Acoustic players also don't much care for locking tuners, but look, if it's a big deal and you want locking tuners buy them yourself and put them on aftermarket.

Or you could just not be so arrogant and demanding. Who the hell are you beyond being just another dude with demands and an agenda?

 

[-vic]

Cool! I haven't seen that before. Was it stock or did you add them on after purchasing?

Vic

Not sure about your $2500-$4500 range for acoustics, but I actually having locking tuners on one of my acoustics. The Gotoh Delta 510's. They are great and look great. I've heard no effect on the tone, positive or negative.

 

[-vic]

As a side note, I just took a look at your website. Very cool! I spent the last few years working at one of the largest audio plug-in companies and while for the most part everything we did was music related I've always had major respect for sound design.

There's talk that additional employees are being hired by PRS for a lower priced line of USA acoustics. If you can't wait, then don't buy an import, and don't buy a Private Stock and simply look elsewhere.



It never went out of production. It, like the Angelus, went to Private Stock because they are very expensive guitars to make.



As a side note to stir you up, tradition isn't always stupid. If you've ever talked with Paul Smith you know he's a reasonable guy, and he does what he does for reasons of tone most of the time. Acoustic players also don't much care for locking tuners, but look, if it's a big deal and you want locking tuners buy them yourself and put them on aftermarket.

Or you could just not be so arrogant and demanding. Who the hell are you beyond being just another dude with demands and an agenda?

 

[jas]

Cool! I haven't seen that before. Was it stock or did you add them on after purchasing?

I added them after. It came with non lock 510's so it was an easy switch.

 

[-vic]

I'm guessing you would have mentioned this but the one thing that gave me pause was the idea that they might have issues with the larger string sizes of acoustics but I guess they must be designed to accommodate all sizes within reason.

My current acoustic is a Martin OOO15S which means no tuner replacements for me. That being said it's reasonably stable which makes the spat from up above all the more amusing. I bought that guitar before I knew I would want to record music and while I still find the all hog (or sapele) bodies very attractive it just pumps out too much low end information when combined with the OOO size. (this last statement is made worse by the fact that I'm not an amazing engineer)

My hope is that in the next few years PRS will have a spruce topped guitar in my price range that I can buy. I could see a 'core' acoustic line fitting in well somewhere between Taylor and Santa Cruze. Well, maybe just more like Santa Cruze, but I'm not sure if those kinds of production numbers would be appealing to PRS.

I think the big problem is that what I really want is boutique quality at productionish prices. If anybody can pull it off it's going to be PRS. They just seem to 'get' quality and their current 'core' line hits way above its price point when you look at some of the more successful boutique electric builders.

here's hoping for an OM with a spruce top and ebony bridge/fretboard.

-Vic

I added them after. It came with non lock 510's so it was an easy switch.

 

[jas]

Vic

Keep your eyes open for a few used Angelus or Tonare's. I've seen some on reverb.com for around the $2500 mark. That would be a killer find if one comes available.

 

[-vic]

Good advice for sure. This is the way I'll be going if there's no production line from PRS by the time I'm ready to buy my next guitar.

Vic

Keep your eyes open for a few used Angelus or Tonare's. I've seen some on reverb.com for around the $2500 mark. That would be a killer find if one comes available.

 

[tabl10s]

Hog TG on Reverb for $34+. I'd get it, but I don't want a guitar with that wood to be my last acoustic unless it comes from "The Tree".

 

[László]

Good points.

All apologies for offending you. That being said I'm dismayed that you would interpret what I wrote as being so hostile. I don't have it out for you or anyone else. It is well within my right to have an opinion and the opinion I shared wasn't all that outrageous. Either you are having a bad day, are looking for an argument, or have some other issue that I am unable to identify. As for calling me arrogant, fine. If I am arrogant in your mind then it is fair to assume that in my mind that you are a forum fool on a hair trigger looking for an excuse to go off on someone. You don't know me and I don't know you. I have no personal stake in your opinion of me but if you're ever interested in engaging in a civil discussion I'm willing to have one, otherwise the Monty Python argument room is over there --->

-Vic

Apologies for offending you as well. You said you wanted to stir things up, so I figured you were looking to troll an argument.

I appreciate the comments on the website...which company did you work for? Plugins are amazing tools.

 

[-vic]

No worries. I could have chosen my words better. "I appreciate the comments on the website" is one of the nicer things I've seen someone say on any forum (not joking.) Thank you.

I worked for Antares. I left about a year ago to try to tie up my education while I still can. I did support (10 person company), alpha testing, wrangled beta testers, and any other odd thing. Feel free to pm me if you want to talk shop (totally random, if you're not using Massey's L2007 and CT4 for limiting/leveling I strongly recommend looking at them again. There are very few plugins that "just work" and put a smile on my face and every time I instantiate a Massey plug-in I'm happy I did.)

Anyhow, back on topic. You mentioned that there's rumors PRS is staffing up for full blown acoustic production. I sure hope they are. If they could get a good line going I think they could reset the bar for large scale production american made acoustics that would be wonderful. I like what some of the small-medium scale boutique makers are doing but I feel like the industry would benefit from someone like PRS coming in and saying "I can do this better."

You also said "It never went out of production. It, like the Angelus, went to Private Stock because they are very expensive guitars to make." That makes it sound like they had the same team building the standard line and private stock line then decided to focus on the private stock till they could tool up for large production. Do you know if this is true? I'd be interested in hearing any story related to this.

As for the tuners, you're absolutely correct. Acoustic guitar players don't really go for them for some reason. The tuning machines the PRS are putting on their current acoustics are stunning in their visual appeal but in my opinion they already had the best tuner on the market, though I think the prs tuners and the Steinberger gearless tuners are similar in tuning stability.

-Vic

Apologies for offending you as well. You said you wanted to stir things up, so I figured you were looking to troll an argument.

I appreciate the comments on the website...which company did you work for? Plugins are amazing tools.

 

[László]

I worked for Antares.

Superb company.

Anyhow, back on topic. You mentioned that there's rumors PRS is staffing up for full blown acoustic production.

http://mdbiznews.business.maryland.gov/2015/04/marylands-prs-guitars-plans-expansion-new-hires/

You also said "It never went out of production. It, like the Angelus, went to Private Stock because they are very expensive guitars to make." That makes it sound like they had the same team building the standard line and private stock line then decided to focus on the private stock till they could tool up for large production. Do you know if this is true? I'd be interested in hearing any story related to this.

I don't know if the PS team worked on the earlier Core ones or not. Having had both a Core and PS Tonare Grand, I doubt I could tell the difference in terms of the quality or fit/finish of the guitars. I do know these were not cookie-cutter production instruments, and can see why they decided to go PS with them.

As to the tuners, the Robson/PRS tuners are wonderful and I wouldn't trade them for locking machines on a bet. So have at it!

 

[-vic]

Thank you for the link to that article. That's about as concrete as it gets.

I'm guessing that you purchased the PS Tonare after the Core? Either way, what motivated you to pickup another one? Do they have the same wood sets? If you have a chance to put up some pictures that would be cool too.

You mentioned that the two you have are on the same level quality wise. Do they have a dramatic difference in tone? Have you had the opportunity to do a blindfold test with them?

The idea of a used Tonare is more and more appealing, though if I'm being honest I'm at least a year or two from purchasing one.

Superb company.



http://mdbiznews.business.maryland.gov/2015/04/marylands-prs-guitars-plans-expansion-new-hires/



I don't know if the PS team worked on the earlier Core ones or not. Having had both a Core and PS Tonare Grand, I doubt I could tell the difference in terms of the quality or fit/finish of the guitars. I do know these were not cookie-cutter production instruments, and can see why they decided to go PS with them.

As to the tuners, the Robson/PRS tuners are wonderful and I wouldn't trade them for locking machines on a bet. So have at it!

 

[László]

I'm guessing that you purchased the PS Tonare after the Core? Either way, what motivated you to pickup another one? Do they have the same wood sets? If you have a chance to put up some pictures that would be cool too.

You mentioned that the two you have are on the same level quality wise. Do they have a dramatic difference in tone? Have you had the opportunity to do a blindfold test with them?

You're right, I bought the Core first (an Artist Package) and loved it. Mine had cocobolo back and sides, adirondack top, and ebony fingerboard; it was glorious sounding. But I had this "big idea" that the same thing with maple back and sides might be brighter and sit even better in a dense mix. So I sold the Core to partially fund my PS build.

My PS hasn't got any fancy trim stuff beyond what was standard. All I wanted was the maple back and sides and the carbon fiber truss rod that my Core also had. The build quality between the two guitars is, to my eye, indistinguishable, and both were finished in nitro. I did luck out because my dealer (Jack Gretz) went to Stevensville and collared Paul Smith to help pick out the wood, and they tapped it for tone, etc. I even wound up with an Adirondack top that was marked "T. McManus," who's one of the endorsers. It's a pretty nice axe!

With the difference between coco and maple, there's a difference in tone, as you'd expect, but it's down to the tone woods being different, and not about the build quality. That's why I say that I understand why they went PS. I don't see how they could keep pricing the guitar at the original Core price and make any money. What I'd consider comparable acoustics are a lot more expensive. Even my old Collings SJ was priced higher, and it really didn't sound as wonderful (though it was certainly very, very nice!).

In terms of quality of tone, then, the Core I had and the PS I now have stood shoulder to shoulder, taking into account of course that the two tonewoods sound different. Both guitars have an uncanny ability to just ring and ring...it's as if the ADSR envelope on the note doesn't have much decay, sustains forever, and has a very, very long release time. It's hard to explain, but I'll link a little soundcloud thing that I recorded when I first got the instrument. It's only to show this characteristic of the guitar, and not to show the playing off!

Pics:



Gotta include the tuners!



Shot of the front:

 

[László]

I know it's bad form to post twice in a row, but I wanted to share a story that happened at the 30th Anniversary event in June. I got to walk around the factory and meet some of the PRS folks, something that was a real pleasure. When I got to the area where they build the PS acoustics, and introduced myself, I found that not only was I speaking with the person who made my guitar, but he recognized my name, and even knew who my dealer was - as well as details about the guitar (!).

Does that make it a better guitar? Of course not. But it sure was impressive!

Here's the clip I mentioned in the last post. Guitar was new. Bad playing, good tone, if you have decent headphones or monitors it'll sound right. Please forgive the stumbling around on it, I just wanted to get an idea of how it would record.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/ps-blonde

Finally, if you can lay your hands on a Core Tonare at some point, I don't think you'll ever regret it. I wish that I'd have been a little more patient and kept mine, because the rich, warm, chocolatey sound of the coco one I had would go so nicely with the maple I have now. In fact, it's possible that the coco model would be a more appropriate solo instrument, whereas I really bought the maple to sit in rock mixes. Horses for courses, right?

 

[Blues Trucker]

That thing sure did sustain Les.
I wonder, will the Core models be made with more standard materials (Mahogany and spruce) and be priced slightly higher than Gibsons and Martins?

 

[László]

That thing sure did sustain Les.
I wonder, will the Core models be made with more standard materials (Mahogany and spruce) and be priced slightly higher than Gibsons and Martins?

I haven't heard a thing about the new ones, other than that they're happening. Maybe they'll be S2s?

 

[-vic]

Absolutely stunning instrument LSChefman! The clip sounded great and the pictures were well taken too.

As for the S2 acoustic idea, that sure would be nice but I think if they go that route it'll be a few years after they get larger production numbers going in the the US. I have an ideological fondness of the PRS production ethos. I hope they can carve out a substantial marketshare in the acoustic world.

I know it's bad form to post twice in a row, but I wanted to share a story that happened at the 30th Anniversary event in June. I got to walk around the factory and meet some of the PRS folks, something that was a real pleasure. When I got to the area where they build the PS acoustics, and introduced myself, I found that not only was I speaking with the person who made my guitar, but he recognized my name, and even knew who my dealer was - as well as details about the guitar (!).

Does that make it a better guitar? Of course not. But it sure was impressive!

Here's the clip I mentioned in the last post. Guitar was new. Bad playing, good tone, if you have decent headphones or monitors it'll sound right. Please forgive the stumbling around on it, I just wanted to get an idea of how it would record.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/ps-blonde

Finally, if you can lay your hands on a Core Tonare at some point, I don't think you'll ever regret it. I wish that I'd have been a little more patient and kept mine, because the rich, warm, chocolatey sound of the coco one I had would go so nicely with the maple I have now. In fact, it's possible that the coco model would be a more appropriate solo instrument, whereas I really bought the maple to sit in rock mixes. Horses for courses, right?