Brand new S2 CU24, annoying wolftone...

carpercen

New Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
49
Hi!
I just bought my guitar, have dreamed with a PRS for a couple of years now and I finally had the opportunity to buy an american made one!
I was happy to have it in my hands but soon after buying it I discovered it has a wolf tone on frets 9 to 11 on the B string... more noticeable on the 10th fret, but these three frets have the same problem... note almost instantly goes an octave higher... last time I made a comparision and fret 10 and 22 sounded the same... it is quite annoying when playing...

I must mention also that this is more obvious when using distortion, when playing clean the problem stills there but in a minor degree...
I tought it would be because of my amp so I sold my Fender Mustang v1 and bought a Marshall Class 5 but the problem stills there... if I mess with the eq and turn up the bass, it helps...
As I understand, reducing trebble or reducing high frequencies helps with this... but playing "too bassy" all the time is not what I want... I don't want to stick to a bassy sound all the time...

Is there a way to fix it?

By the way, I'm from México, is there a problem with the warranty if I'm not at the US?

Thanks guys!
 
If it has a trem it could be vibrations in that note range. I had this happen on a Studio. try damping the springs and then playing, if it stops you can put something on the springs to dampent hem without interfering with the action of them.
 
Hi man!
Thank you for the answer!

I'm having troubles understanding what you mean when you say "try damping the springs"... No sure how to translate that... you mean the springs below the brigde that goes attached to the trem bridge right? my guitar came with 4 of them... but what do you mean with damping them? could you be more specific about it?

I'm sorry to bother you with this, hope you can help me... thanks!
 
Yes those are the springs. Put something like cloth against them to prevent them from vibrating as a test. If it helps you can cover them with something more permanent. You can also change the location of the wolf tone by putting something on the headstock. Again, as a test, if you have one of those clip on tuners just leave it on the headstock and you will see that the wolf tone will move up or down the fretboard. Sometimes the added mass will actually remove the wolf tone but usually not.

It isn't because you has an S2 verses the core model. All 24 fret guitars are more likely to have wolf tones. I actually love to hear them at the end of a great lead, but they can be frustrating playing rhythm.

The warranty should not be a problem living in Mexico, but I think you need to talk to the store where you bought it. They will work with the factory on any issues. I don't know that wolf tones are a warranty item but you can ask.

Y ahora, Bienvenidos a este website. Nos gusta tener gente de todos partes del mundo!
 
Hi man! thanks and big hugs from Mexico!

By the way, I already tried adding weight to the neck and yes, it changes the wolf tone location, it goes one or two frets up depending on how much weight I add...
Also, I tunned down the string from B to A, but the wolf stays on the G#, A and A# notes! It only changes to another note by adding mass...

Once I get home I'll try the dampening trick and I'll report the results tomorrow guys :D!


¡Muchas gracias amigos!
 
Hi guys!
Thanks to all for your answers!
Here is my update...

Everything is worse now... I feel really sad... I tried filling the springs with the rubber tubing... had to dismount the springs to be able to introduce the rubber in the cavity... I did it one by one...
Then when I finished, plugged in my guitar and noticed it sounded out of tune so I procced to tune it again, once it was done, I checked the wolf tone and sadly is was still there... but it wasnt all... now, everytime I used the trem bar, the guitar goes flat or sharp... I tought it was due to the rubber tubing inside the springs so I retired them(as it didnt fix the wolftone anyway...) but the problem is still there... I tried playing for some minutes using the trem bar with no luck... Guitar doesn't stays tunned when I use the trem... this never happened to me before...

Actually I was amazed when I bought the guitar of how awesome it always stayed in tune! and now it no use... don't know how to fix this...

Can some one help me?

Please, I'd like to hear some advices!

Thanks in advantage!
 
Is it possible you stretched out the spring? That's why you were supposed to put the cloth in first, to see if that fixed the problem or not. It's not the end of the world if you did -- you might be able to fix them...worst case, you'd need to replace the springs.

Also, is it possible you didn't finish tuning them? I'm not familiar with PRS tremolos, but tuning a guitar with a Floyd Rose is a long drawn out sordid affair, it's possible you just didn't finish tuning it. Don't panic, just look up some instructions and make sure to follow them -- it's possible to screw up a Floyd Rose tremolo just from tuning it incorrectly, I have to assume the same is true with a PRS.
 
This is the typical dead spot are for prs 24 fretters and this is very likely an issue with the primary resonant frequency (as Terry Mcinturff refers to it) of the neck. In general this a problem with longer mahogany necked instruments. It is unlikely you will remove the dead spots (wolf tones) but you might move them around with various mods.

A direct quote from TCM off a thread at TGP:

"Dead spots on a neck on the G string at around the 12th fret area are common, especially on a double-cut guitar; neck-thru or otherwise.

Very often, the culprit is a neck resonance issue, and this has nothing to do with any setup or fret related things. Instead, it is due to the neck vibrating at a sympathetic frequency and this vibration robs the string of energy. The string drives the neck and loses energy fast.

Most who experience this can perform a simple experiment; clamp a small C clamp to the headstock and voila! problem dissapears. This is because the added mass of the clamp has raised the PRF of the neck.

The extended heel on a PRS came about in order to minimize this situation. The shorter length of carved neck had a higher PRF.

The problem CAN be very annoying. That octave G note is pretty important. Ive played many guitars which required a change in technique in order to avoid that spot.

It is less common on single-cuts, due to the fact that the neck is supported starting way down at around the 16th fret, usually. This provides for a much shorter unsupported length of neck."

and

"A good Q. The following is my opinion only.

The truss rod is involved only because it is part of the neck; I 've arrived at the conclusion that in general we cant point to the truss rod as being a primary factor.

The "dead octave G" has been a source of frustration and mystery for years. It is due to the neck resonance matching the fundamentals of that note/pitch...the neck is stealing string energy.

It is not always G string/12th fret...it can be one of the neighboring notes on that string; note as well the behavior of that same note/pitch on the B string/9th fret...it will usually quickly shift into a higher overtone series as the note decays. However, the same note/pitch on the D string/15th fret is rarely a problem. The hi E/3rd fret can sometimes behave a bit like the B, but not as much (usually).

Finally, this phenomenon is very rare on set neck single-cuts which feature neck support from the 16th fret on up.

These behaviors give us important hints. The phenomenon Im referring to has nothing to do with loose parts, frets, and the like. It is a neck resonance-related phenomenon.

The G string and to a lesser extent the B string are "driving" the neck hard enough to cause "robbing". The hi E usually is not, and the D string is fretted so high up on the neck that the resonance of the lower part of the neck is not much of an influence in this way.

If the resonance of the neck can be raised significantly, the "problem" can be reduced or eliminated. This is what happens when we experimentally shift the resonance via that C=clamp I mentioned earlier. And we have seen how PRS shortened the shaft of the neck via that extended heel, which raises the PRF over the same neck with a small heel....a clever trick that is (as in all such things wooden) not entirely fool-proof as a solution. I always thought that they were rather brave in changing that heel!

While I was at Hamer in the early '90's I experimented with a group of approx 20 guitars. all of which exhibited this phenomenon. I was hopeful that using heavy tuners ala Rotomatics would be a solution, but on balance this was not enough. Ive lost my notes from back then but I seem to recall a slight improvement on maybe 3 guitars.

Aside from the use of something like that Fathead plate (with which I have zero experience but, it should work) I am sorry to report that there does not seem to be anything that can be done post-build in order to improve the situation....if the prob on any given guitar is related to neck resonance."
 
Is it possible you stretched out the spring? That's why you were supposed to put the cloth in first, to see if that fixed the problem or not. It's not the end of the world if you did -- you might be able to fix them...worst case, you'd need to replace the springs.

Also, is it possible you didn't finish tuning them? I'm not familiar with PRS tremolos, but tuning a guitar with a Floyd Rose is a long drawn out sordid affair, it's possible you just didn't finish tuning it. Don't panic, just look up some instructions and make sure to follow them -- it's possible to screw up a Floyd Rose tremolo just from tuning it incorrectly, I have to assume the same is true with a PRS.


Hi!
Can you explain more of this?

The guitar was fine before removing the springs and putting them back... they were fine... never had tunning issues before.... now it just doesn't stays in tune when I use the trem bar...

When you say if I finish tunning them... do you mean the strings? they were perfectly tunned! and perfectly intonated!

Can you explain more of this to me ?

I'll leave son pictures of it if it helps somehow!
20150719_092939.jpg
[/URL] [/IMG]

20150719_105848.jpg
[/URL] [/IMG]
 
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Before I start, I should add that none of this has anything to do with the original problem, I just thought I recognized from your description an improperly set up guitar with a tremolo. I could be wrong. It'd probably be better to find a good local guitarist who techs his own guitars (or a guitar tech) to look at it, and make sure it's set up properly.

Before I lead you down the wrong path -- can someone familiar with tuning from scratch (e.g. new guitar or restringing) both a Floyd Rose trem and a PRS trem confirm or deny whether or not they're just as much trouble as each other? I haven't yet restrung or set up a PRS trem, so I honestly don't know if this is an issue. I know on a Floyd Rose trem you have to "rough" tune from the tuning pegs, and then fine tune from the bridge. Is that how a PRS trem works? This here seems to be a good starting point (I haven't finished reading it all the way through yet):

http://prsguitars.com/forum/showthread.php?2624-PRS-Trem-Set-up-Tips

Don't forget to loosen the locks at the nut when you tune them! I did the first time, and almost screwed up my guitar (a Carvin DC727 with a Floyd Rose) completely. Fortunately I recognized from the symptoms I was doing something wrong and stopped and sought help before I went too far. Does your PRS have that?

I will give you a little bit more background about the springs -- the strings on a guitar pull back on a trem bridge, the springs are there to pull in the other direction, so the forces between the two (the set of 6 strings, and the set of four springs) need to be equal when the guitar is in tune, and you're not touching the tremolo bar.
 
Before I start, I should add that none of this has anything to do with the original problem, I just thought I recognized from your description an improperly set up guitar with a tremolo. I could be wrong. It'd probably be better to find a good local guitarist who techs his own guitars (or a guitar tech) to look at it, and make sure it's set up properly.

Before I lead you down the wrong path -- can someone familiar with tuning from scratch (e.g. new guitar or restringing) both a Floyd Rose trem and a PRS trem confirm or deny whether or not they're just as much trouble as each other? I haven't yet restrung or set up a PRS trem, so I honestly don't know if this is an issue. I know on a Floyd Rose trem you have to "rough" tune from the tuning pegs, and then fine tune from the bridge. Is that how a PRS trem works? This here seems to be a good starting point (I haven't finished reading it all the way through yet):

http://prsguitars.com/forum/showthread.php?2624-PRS-Trem-Set-up-Tips

Don't forget to loosen the locks at the nut when you tune them! I did the first time, and almost screwed up my guitar (a Carvin DC727 with a Floyd Rose) completely. Fortunately I recognized from the symptoms I was doing something wrong and stopped and sought help before I went too far. Does your PRS have that?

I will give you a little bit more background about the springs -- the strings on a guitar pull back on a trem bridge, the springs are there to pull in the other direction, so the forces between the two (the set of 6 strings, and the set of four springs) need to be equal when the guitar is in tune, and you're not touching the tremolo bar.

Thank you man!
First of all I should say, I owned a floyd rose guitar, sold it two weeks ago, and altough it was a cheap one, never had tunning stability issues with it... but I'm familiar with that kind of bridge. Also I want to say, when I received the guitar, I never had this issue before... no matter how much I used the trem, it always stayed in tune... this started only after I removed the springs to add the rubber thing inside them (which I also removed believing they were causing this weird phenomen), but yeah... this issue started after removing and putting back the springs on the brigde... I did it one by one (removed one, removed the rubber, put it back on the bridge and moved to the next spring)...

Now, what I don't understand very well is what exactly happened cause it was fine before doing that... and I'm not sure exactly how to fix this... I used to fix my floyd guitar always, but the trem bridge is different... with this one I'm not 100% sure how to do it and the instruction on the PRS page are very simple...

I don't know any experienced guitar tech in my city sadly... so my best hope is to learn exactly how to do it myself, so please if someone can help with this, I'm open to listen.

And special thanks for Dusty Chalk!
(by the way, you said you recognized something wron with the set up, what where you talking about man :/?)
 
The sudden going out of tune with the trem. From my little experience with an incorrectly set up Floyd Rose -- accompanied by a high pitch 'ping' -- it meant I hadn't tightened the nut locks back down.

Anyway, good luck, the long and short of what you should take away is to see if you can get some in person help with this. I'm not exactly the most experienced person on here.
 
I've always understood that a "wolf tone" was the opposite of a "dead note." I was under the impression that it was an artificially sustaining or loud note. So I looked it up and it's defined as "a sustaining sympathetic artificial overtone that amplifies and expands the frequencies of the original note."

So the first thing to decide here is exactly what the OP is experiencing. Is it a dead note or a wolf tone, i.e., a sustaining sympathetic vibration?
 
I've always understood that a "wolf tone" was the opposite of a "dead note." I was under the impression that it was an artificially sustaining or loud note. So I looked it up and it's defined as "a sustaining sympathetic artificial overtone that amplifies and expands the frequencies of the original note."

So the first thing to decide here is exactly what the OP is experiencing. Is it a dead note or a wolf tone, i.e., a sustaining sympathetic vibration?

Wolftone, note goes one octae higher :C
 
This is the typical dead spot are for prs 24 fretters and this is very likely an issue with the primary resonant frequency (as Terry Mcinturff refers to it) of the neck. In general this a problem with longer mahogany necked instruments. It is unlikely you will remove the dead spots (wolf tones) but you might move them around with various mods.

A direct quote from TCM off a thread at TGP:

"Dead spots on a neck on the G string at around the 12th fret area are common, especially on a double-cut guitar; neck-thru or otherwise.

Very often, the culprit is a neck resonance issue, and this has nothing to do with any setup or fret related things. Instead, it is due to the neck vibrating at a sympathetic frequency and this vibration robs the string of energy. The string drives the neck and loses energy fast.

Most who experience this can perform a simple experiment; clamp a small C clamp to the headstock and voila! problem dissapears. This is because the added mass of the clamp has raised the PRF of the neck.

The extended heel on a PRS came about in order to minimize this situation. The shorter length of carved neck had a higher PRF.

The problem CAN be very annoying. That octave G note is pretty important. Ive played many guitars which required a change in technique in order to avoid that spot.

It is less common on single-cuts, due to the fact that the neck is supported starting way down at around the 16th fret, usually. This provides for a much shorter unsupported length of neck."

and

"A good Q. The following is my opinion only.

The truss rod is involved only because it is part of the neck; I 've arrived at the conclusion that in general we cant point to the truss rod as being a primary factor.

The "dead octave G" has been a source of frustration and mystery for years. It is due to the neck resonance matching the fundamentals of that note/pitch...the neck is stealing string energy.

It is not always G string/12th fret...it can be one of the neighboring notes on that string; note as well the behavior of that same note/pitch on the B string/9th fret...it will usually quickly shift into a higher overtone series as the note decays. However, the same note/pitch on the D string/15th fret is rarely a problem. The hi E/3rd fret can sometimes behave a bit like the B, but not as much (usually).

Finally, this phenomenon is very rare on set neck single-cuts which feature neck support from the 16th fret on up.

These behaviors give us important hints. The phenomenon Im referring to has nothing to do with loose parts, frets, and the like. It is a neck resonance-related phenomenon.

The G string and to a lesser extent the B string are "driving" the neck hard enough to cause "robbing". The hi E usually is not, and the D string is fretted so high up on the neck that the resonance of the lower part of the neck is not much of an influence in this way.

If the resonance of the neck can be raised significantly, the "problem" can be reduced or eliminated. This is what happens when we experimentally shift the resonance via that C=clamp I mentioned earlier. And we have seen how PRS shortened the shaft of the neck via that extended heel, which raises the PRF over the same neck with a small heel....a clever trick that is (as in all such things wooden) not entirely fool-proof as a solution. I always thought that they were rather brave in changing that heel!

While I was at Hamer in the early '90's I experimented with a group of approx 20 guitars. all of which exhibited this phenomenon. I was hopeful that using heavy tuners ala Rotomatics would be a solution, but on balance this was not enough. Ive lost my notes from back then but I seem to recall a slight improvement on maybe 3 guitars.

Aside from the use of something like that Fathead plate (with which I have zero experience but, it should work) I am sorry to report that there does not seem to be anything that can be done post-build in order to improve the situation....if the prob on any given guitar is related to neck resonance."

So there's nothing to do and I'm... screwed?
 
I'm not sure what a C clamp is... (don't know how to translate that exactly), But i tried putting my capo on the neck and it changed the wolftone to another fret, that what you mean?
 
image_17226.jpg

The idea is to put some weight on the headstock, so if you don't have a c-clamp, then find a way to put some weight on the headstock.
 
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