Bad News for the Big G

[veinbuster]

Bankruptcy (err...chapter 11 restructuring) rarely results in the dismantling of a company. There may be staff reductions and such but they won’t disappear. Now, if Henry takes a financial fillet knife to its gut and files chapter 7, that’s a very different story. It would be nice if they come out of this leaner, meaner, and more responsive to its customer base, but none of us want them to disappear. That’s bad for everyone.

I agree that Gibson guitars are likely to live on. I think most of their problems arise from having tried to become a monster.

 

[Michael_DK]

Bankruptcy (err...chapter 11 restructuring) rarely results in the dismantling of a company. There may be staff reductions and such but they won’t disappear. Now, if Henry takes a financial fillet knife to its gut and files chapter 7, that’s a very different story. It would be nice if they come out of this leaner, meaner, and more responsive to its customer base, but none of us want them to disappear. That’s bad for everyone.

I wonder which parts of Gibson Brands Incorporated will come out leaner, meaner and more responsive to its customer base. Does anybody know how big a part of their business is the guitar division?

 

[Ovibos]

I wonder which parts of Gibson Brands Incorporated will come out leaner, meaner and more responsive to its customer base. Does anybody know how big a part of their business is the guitar division?

It's a private corporation, so I don't think they give out those details. (Much like PRS, which is a limited partnership)

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I think the issue with online only vs. stores is this: The cost of stocking multiple models, and then a couple color options of each, is way more than most stores can handle. So, you have someone like Casi1 or I going "I want a Mayer strat if it plays and feels just like one of my other PRS guitars but sounds like a strat." So I go into the local dealer and he has one and I fall in love. But, it's a color I don't want and has rosewood board. So what do I do? I go online and find the white one with maple. The local guy I wanted to support loses a sale until the "red w/ rosewood" buyer comes along. Kind of sucks for them, but if I'm spending even $2K, I'm getting what I want. At $3K it's got to be exactly what I want. And none of the mom and pop stores can seem to stock the kind of inventory to even have a few choices of color in several models, much less all of them.

Then, there are the "different" guitars. If I've never played a single cut vs. a 594 or a single cut with a fixed bridge vs. a trem, how do I know which I want or which sounds the way I want? One dealer has one type, another dealer has another, go two places just to compare, and nobody east of the Miss'ipee has my color. Go online and find it out west somewhere...

Heck, I looked for almost a year for a color I wanted, maple neck and birds NF3 before I finally settled for color and maple, NO BIRDIES!

 

[Tucson Thump]

Bankruptcy (err...chapter 11 restructuring) rarely results in the dismantling of a company. There may be staff reductions and such but they won’t disappear. Now, if Henry takes a financial fillet knife to its gut and files chapter 7, that’s a very different story. It would be nice if they come out of this leaner, meaner, and more responsive to its customer base, but none of us want them to disappear. That’s bad for everyone.

If Henry was really sharp he'd have a chunk of some kind of equity in the company and step away, permanently, from Gibson. Let someone else with love for the brand bring the Gibson back to its former glory and he can let his equity become more valuable. Best for everyone.

I have a number of old Gibsons; a '59 ES-345, a '61 SG Les Paul, a '63 ES-350 TD and a '65 SG Special. They all play well, and it is evident that someone who cared about the work they did built them. When you play them they have a lot to "say". In contrast I had an all gold LP in 1990 that had a paint run down the side and two years ago I bought a used "new" SG Bass that had a chunk of wood out of the neck tendon; neither of those guitars was a "second".

 

[kes7u]

You are right..... isn't working out well for them.

Just curious about your tone, and why it is necessary to include the sarcasm and some of the generalized mean-spiritedness found in some of your posts. Is it not possible to make your point and provide rebuttal without it?

I apologize, in that I don't really mean to single you out. This is just so emblematic of peoples' behavior in so many other areas in this social media age. I just find it unnecessary and figure that we would all be better served by trying more civility.

This is one of the reasons I don't use social media AT ALL, and only visit very few forums.

Kevin

 

[GavQuinn]

It sucks... and the human aspect is deplorable. It's all so unnecessary. Management has to answer for all of it. They are the ones allowing less than stellar product out the door. They are the ones creating and allowing a crappy work environment. They are the ones coming up with silly product that doesn't sell.
Sad indeed.
Firebird X anyone?

Jesus remember this thing?! How much money did they sink into the robot tuner thing? Just such a folly and waste of money, like SAAB spending millions on the car without the steering wheel...

Just an awful misappropriation, and I’ve read that the boss was not to disagreed with EVER, I’ve heard that good people, junior and senior were fired at a whim and everyone worked on a basis of fear, working to build targets that increased non stop, no matter what. The results were plain. I bought a Firebird 2 years ago, it had 4 tall frets and the neck wouldn’t settle after adjustments, kept moving. Ruined the experience, I got my money back. No, don’t want replacement thanks..

I played a collectors choice SG that was as good as my Starla, why you gotta spend €6k to get a good one...? That and the CONSTANT reference to and admittance that what they did SIXTY years ago was far better? It’s 2018, we know more now than they EVER did, makes them look stupid, makes a 2018 LP standard look ‘not good enough’.

All those jobs..... Maybe they can find an investor after the company defaults, the brand will have residual value.

 

[GavQuinn]

They were discussing this in the satellite radio the other day, except their focus was the lack of a "guitar hero" to stimulate sales instead of their poor business decisions and lack of quality control.

Deluded.

 

[11top]

If Henry was really sharp he'd have a chunk of some kind of equity in the company and step away, permanently, from Gibson. Let someone else with love for the brand bring the Gibson back to its former glory and he can let his equity become more valuable. Best for everyone.

I have a number of old Gibsons; a '59 ES-345, a '61 SG Les Paul, a '63 ES-350 TD and a '65 SG Special. They all play well, and it is evident that someone who cared about the work they did built them. When you play them they have a lot to "say". In contrast I had an all gold LP in 1990 that had a paint run down the side and two years ago I bought a used "new" SG Bass that had a chunk of wood out of the neck tendon; neither of those guitars was a "second".

If the quality control throughout the company equaled that of their custom shop, there would be no problem (at least with quality control). Gibson's current custom shop guitars are exceptional.

 

[Drew]

Just curious about your tone, and why it is necessary to include the sarcasm and some of the generalized mean-spiritedness found in some of your posts. Is it not possible to make your point and provide rebuttal without it?

I apologize, in that I don't really mean to single you out. This is just so emblematic of peoples' behavior in so many other areas in this social media age. I just find it unnecessary and figure that we would all be better served by trying more civility.

This is one of the reasons I don't use social media AT ALL, and only visit very few forums.

Kevin

Well...I was the one who introduced into the thread the idea of getting rid of dealers and going direct to consumer. It's ok to disagree with that concept. It's just my opinion. But when you make a completely false statement to support your opinion, I'm going to call you out on it...with sarcasm, because that's how I roll, baby

Oh..and lets not confuse bluntness for mean spiritedness. I'm very opinionated, very direct, and very honest. Not a combo people are used to since this world has become a bunch of people afraid to say what's really on their mind.

In the end, I'm just another fool who drools over pretty guitars and drinks WAY too much craft beer...like a lot of you

 

[John Beef]

Big G is a company with a billion dollars in revenue per year. It's not like they're just going to turn out the lights and everyone goes home.

1st they will declare bankruptcy.
Henry J will "retire"
A court appointed overseer will handle the bankruptcy
Most of upper management will retire or be let go
Most likely a capital management firm will buy the company at fire sale prices
More successful sub-brands will be sold off.
Less successful sub-brands will be shut down.
Product lines will be streamlined
New upper management will be installed
Capital Management firm re-sells the company in 2-3 years.

 

[bluefade]

the big "G" is not DEAD yet...Just needs to lose a lot of WEIGHT...Starting in the FRONT office!

 

[bodia]

Yeah, thats why they've moved into a new larger facility, increased staff, and have a 10 week lead time on orders. You are right..... isn't working out well for them.

Squirt

 

[Elliot]

They need new management. There are plenty of articles written about horrible experiences with Gibson management.

 

[justmund]

Well...I was the one who introduced into the thread the idea of getting rid of dealers and going direct to consumer. It's ok to disagree with that concept. It's just my opinion. But when you make a completely false statement to support your opinion, I'm going to call you out on it...with sarcasm, because that's how I roll, baby

Oh..and lets not confuse bluntness for mean spiritedness. I'm very opinionated, very direct, and very honest. Not a combo people are used to since this world has become a bunch of people afraid to say what's really on their mind.

In the end, I'm just another fool who drools over pretty guitars and drinks WAY too much craft beer...like a lot of you

Squirt

 

[Clashcityrocker]

Nonsense, they’re needed, both by the customer and the manufacturer. This kind of assertion can be made only if you aren’t familiar with how the big-time musical instrument manufacturing business works, both practically and in terms of financing and investment.

The financing arrangements manufacturers make with banks, investors, etc., would have to completely change, mostly to the detriment of the manufacturer. Resources would have to be diverted from the core expertise of the company. The investment in personnel, training, warehouse space, size of the facility, etc., would reduce resources needed for manufacturing, research and development.

The transition could threaten the very existence of the company, and that’s if the business model even worked, which history has shown is not sustainable on a large scale.

In my former life years ago, I drafted contracts and handled legal matters for several manufacturers, including folks in the instrument biz. It’s complicated, far more so than most folks realize.

Direct sales would be a disaster for most manufacturers. Frankly, it hasn’t worked out all that well for the last man standing doing that, Carvin.

Make a manufacturer operate a sales floor, and you will divert attention from other things they do. PRS’ expertise is designing and building guitars, and putting them in dealers’ hands.

Change that, and you may wish you hadn’t wished for it!

I agree it hasn't worked in the past but it could work now. Heck Fender is doing it. Carvin isn't a good example. A used Carvin is about as desirable as a 79 Ford Pinto.

 

[László]

A used Carvin is about as desirable as a 79 Ford Pinto.

True that.

They’re not bad guitars, in terms of assembly and finish. One of the guys I have hired for sessions plays one, and...he’s great, not so much the guitar tone. I have to do a lot of work with EQ to make it work.

 

[László]

Yeah, thats why they've moved into a new larger facility, increased staff, and have a 10 week lead time on orders. You are right..... isn't working out well for them.

Actually, the reason they stopped the sound reinforcement thing was lack of sales and financial worries. That’s just a fact. Carvin closed its doors after 70 years in the audio biz.

I hope to heck they’re doing OK with guitar and bass sales now that they’ve cut out the other stuff; they only make 4000 guitars a year, though. That wouldn’t be a sustainable business model for larger builders, like PRS.

 

[László]

It's ok to disagree with that concept. It's just my opinion. But when you make a completely false statement to support your opinion, I'm going to call you out on it...with sarcasm, because that's how I roll,

Well, what you’ve heard and what I’ve heard are two different things. No problem.

But companies don’t stop doing something that amounted to a good percentage of their business, and change the name of the company if everything’s hunky-dory.

Incidentally, I have no problem with the sarcasm. Roll any way you like.

 

[Tucson Thump]

If the quality control throughout the company equaled that of their custom shop, there would be no problem (at least with quality control). Gibson's current custom shop guitars are exceptional.

I'd read your post and had started to post a reference to what you had written but it became convoluted and I removed it. I have no doubt that their custom shop is exceptional but find it a pity that you have to pay $so_much to get the quality that was available by some guy on the floor putting together an SG Special fifty years ago.