autotune

[cags12]

I am pro tech and I rather the technology to exist and to be used as per your needs than keep living in the stone age hoping something existed. If you abuse of tech, well that is your problem. That would not take the merit away from truly skilled people.

There are so many technology advancement now-days that would be "ethically" comparable to auto-tune but do not get the same bash and are seen as simply tools (how auto-tune should be seen too). Quick example: DAWs. They allow pro and not so pro musicians to edit the hell out of tracks to "improve" the skills of the recorded artist. Tempo/beat correction, selecting best takes of different tracks, etc..

In the end, these tools will assist on the final products and creativity, even if you cannot perform live. But be sure that everyone will know what you are capable of or not. If you and listeners enjoy, that's what really matters.

My only involvement with any Auto-tune products is with the ATG products. Far from using it to tune my guitars ("cheating"), I use it for the versatility and convenience of changing turnings on the fly, intonation correction (guitars by definition cannot be perfectly intonated), creating doubling, modelings, etc. The same as with Roland Vguitars, Variaxes, etc.

 

[László]

The hell you say. Drum machines are an abomination.

Hey. I resemble that remark!

I like using them in my electronic music. They’re great.

I’ll touch up a vocal here and there with autotune, too. In fact, I’m not afraid to use it on instrument tracks that need a note fixed after the session player goes home.

It’s just a tool. Like any tool, you can do stuff with it, or not.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

To echo what cags12 said, I bet there's about 10x more autotune than you all think there is. It only really stands out when it's awful, or done to extreme a la T-Pain, but I've heard it done transparently, and render a demo into something truly worth listening to. I will definitely use it when I start recording vocals, because I have a really nice voice, but I can't hold a pitch.

 

[AP515]

Cher the poster ...uh...lady for autotune...

 

[Huggy Love]

Face it, since the 80's technology has slowly infiltrated almost every facet of music to it's artistic downfall today, and now there are people who have been raised in this world knowing only synthesized sounds, drum machines & autotune. It's also been reinforced since childhood through the media and specifically video games, in which a euphoric swell of computer blips and sci-fi synth sounds reward the player upon reaching the next level of the game. People are programmed to associate those sounds with something good and it gets engrained in their mind with every laser blast or mutant kill, along with the future epidemic of carpal tunnel syndrome and tendonitis.

What I'm trying to say is, like lab rats, the public has been force fed a steady diet of garbage music for so long that it's acceptable, just what the corporations & execs want of the public, cheap/easy to produce crap to sell, like energy drinks & quarter pounders. The music consuming public has become the power source of the Matrix.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Cher the poster ...uh...lady for autotune...

So there's a story behind that -- it's really a vocoder, and they introduced a delay to create that glitch. It's not even real autotune.

 

[jxe]

the article says it was ‘immediate autotune’.

Sh!t man, Philip Bailey can still sing!

So there's a story behind that -- it's really a vocoder, and they introduced a delay to create that glitch. It's not even real autotune.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

the article says it was ‘immediate autotune’.

I remember reading an article in Sound on Sound -- it was actually pretty complicated:
link

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I remember reading an article in Sound on Sound -- it was actually pretty complicated:
link

The real SoS article from 1999 has been abridged to include the fact that it’s just auto tune, but they were trying to keep “their” trade secret and made up some stuff about an esoteric Korg synth and a digitech talker pedal. It’s autotune.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Face it, since the 80's technology has slowly infiltrated almost every facet of music to it's artistic downfall today, and now there are people who have been raised in this world knowing only synthesized sounds, drum machines & autotune. It's also been reinforced since childhood through the media and specifically video games, in which a euphoric swell of computer blips and sci-fi synth sounds reward the player upon reaching the next level of the game. People are programmed to associate those sounds with something good and it gets engrained in their mind with every laser blast or mutant kill, along with the future epidemic of carpal tunnel syndrome and tendonitis.

What I'm trying to say is, like lab rats, the public has been force fed a steady diet of garbage music for so long that it's acceptable, just what the corporations & execs want of the public, cheap/easy to produce crap to sell, like energy drinks & quarter pounders. The music consuming public has become the power source of the Matrix.

I see you’ve skipped the tinfoil hat and went straight for the tinfoil coveralls.

 

[jxe]

“what if i told you neo... that your guitar is out of tune?”

 

[Dusty Chalk]

The real SoS article from 1999 has been abridged to include the fact that it’s just auto tune, but they were trying to keep “their” trade secret and made up some stuff about an esoteric Korg synth and a digitech talker pedal. It’s autotune.

Misinformation! Lies! Fake news!

Sound on Sound would never do that.

...

Unholy carp, you're right.
link

STOP PRESS! Historical Footnote
Cher's 'Believe' (December 1998) was the first commercial recording to feature the audible side-effects of Antares Auto‑Tune software used as a deliberate creative effect. The (now) highly recognisable tonal mangling occurs when the pitch correction speed is set too fast for the audio that it is processing and it became one of the most over-used production effects of the following years.

In February 1999, when this Sound On Sound article was published, the producers of this recording were apparently so keen to maintain their 'trade secret' process that they were willing to attribute the effect to the (then) recently-released Digitech Talker vocoder pedal. As most people are now all‑too familiar with the 'Cher effect', as it has become known, we have maintained the article in its original form as an interesting historical footnote. Matt Bell

(burns all old copies of Sound on Sound)

 

[Huggy Love]

I see you’ve skipped the tinfoil hat and went straight for the tinfoil coveralls.

....... none of that works, they still get you, lay you on a table, and prod every orifice.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

....... none of that works, they still get you, lay you on a table, and prod every orifice.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

 

[László]

What I'm trying to say is, like lab rats, the public has been force fed a steady diet of garbage music for so long that it's acceptable, just what the corporations & execs want of the public, cheap/easy to produce crap to sell, like energy drinks & quarter pounders. The music consuming public has become the power source of the Matrix.

That’s exactly, precisely, what my parents said about electric guitars and rock and roll.

“That’s noise, it’s not music!”

“Anyone can play that garbage! It’s amateur hour! Just listen to Mozart, or Benny Goodman if you want real music, played by real musicians.”

Here’s the best criticism they told me:

“Her voice only sounds good because they used an Echo Chamber!”

Listen: No one has a monopoly on music. People don’t buy music because they’re “lab rats.” People buy music that they like. And what people like changes from time to time, because folks get bored listening to the same diet of material. The Soviet Union tried to ban rock music because it was “decadent.” They wanted everyone to listen to Swan Lake. Or accordions.

Synths, drum machines, and yes, auto-tune, in the right hands, sound very good.

A synth is an electronic oscillator that gets filtered by the electronics. A guitar is a physical oscillator that gets filtered by the materials and construction. An electric guitar is a physical oscillator that gets filtered by the electronics, materials and construction. But in all cases, the sound is still organized by the player. A drummer hits skins on hollow frames to create oscillations, and organizes the peformance. A drum machine programmer uses electronic oscillators, and organizes the performance electronically.

The result is that different techniques are used to create the sounds. What makes one technique for sound creation somehow more legitimate than another, other than mere opinion?

No one can (or should) foist their definition of what music is, isn’t, should or shouldn’t be, on everybody else. It’s personal, and perhaps it ought to be personal, since each of us has our own brain and a unique set of things each of our brains respond to.

And since there are billions of individuals, each with their likes and dislikes, on this planet, maybe it’s time that people say, “You know what, it’s perfectly good that there are lots of ways to create music that satisfies each of those listeners.”

Speaking for myself, I create orchestral music, electronic music, rock music, jazz music, and other genres. Sometimes I mix them up. I write what I write to hear what I want to express. Take it or leave it, but it’s intellectually lazy to sit around and criticize the damn tools.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

That’s exactly, precisely, what my parents said about electric guitars and rock and roll.

“That’s noise, it’s not music!”

“Anyone can play that garbage! It’s amateur hour! Just listen to Mozart, or Benny Goodman if you want real music, played by real musicians.”

Here’s the best criticism they told me:

“Her voice only sounds good because they used an Echo Chamber!”

Listen: No one has a monopoly on music. People don’t buy music because they’re “lab rats.” People buy music that they like. And what people like changes from time to time, because folks get bored listening to the same diet of material. The Soviet Union tried to ban rock music because it was “decadent.” They wanted everyone to listen to Swan Lake. Or accordions.

Synths, drum machines, and yes, auto-tune, in the right hands, sound very good.

A synth is an electronic oscillator that gets filtered by the electronics. A guitar is a physical oscillator that gets filtered by the materials and construction. An electric guitar is a physical oscillator that gets filtered by the electronics, materials and construction. But in all cases, the sound is still organized by the player. A drummer hits skins on hollow frames to create oscillations, and organizes the peformance. A drum machine programmer uses electronic oscillators, and organizes the performance electronically.

The result is that different techniques are used to create the sounds. What makes one technique for sound creation somehow more legitimate than another, other than mere opinion?

No one can (or should) foist their definition of what music is, isn’t, should or shouldn’t be, on everybody else. It’s personal, and perhaps it ought to be personal, since each of us has our own brain and a unique set of things each of our brains respond to.

And since there are billions of individuals, each with their likes and dislikes, on this planet, maybe it’s time that people say, “You know what, it’s perfectly good that there are lots of ways to create music that satisfies each of those listeners.”

I agree with a lot that you say Les. However there has always been manipulation with regard play lists and radio stations and in latter years TV music channels. At least that’s what it seems like.

One example of musical trickery (call it what you will) is bass pedals on a pipe organ. Who needs to employ a double bass player when your feet can do the work?

Technology won’t stand still, heck look at “Garage Band” and the like. You don’t even have to be able to play an instrument, just manipulate a touch screen.

“We’re all doomed!”

 

[Huggy Love]

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

They were a little rough, still have some chaffing from it.

 

[László]

I agree with a lot that you say Les. However there has always been manipulation with regard play lists and radio stations and in latter years TV music channels. At least that’s what it seems like.

Sure, there are folks who try to be gatekeepers and tastemakers in the music biz.

But despite what gets pushed by those folks, musical movements tend to bubble up from the “underground” and gradually rise to the surface and become accepted by the tastemakers.

Cases in point:

Jazz started as a frowned-on, underground movement. Early rock and roll started in the Southern US and broke through mainstream by a few DJs who saw a new trend. How about British Invasion music, with bands coming out of a club scene in Liverpool, Manchester, London, etc.? It eventually became too big to ignore. Rap music was a street thing until it caught on. Electronic music was fully the province of experimenters in academia until “Switched on Bach,” after which pop musicians began to explore the possibilities of synths.

Think for a moment how big the whole dance music thing is; the best stuff is rarely, if ever, on the radio, yet millions of people listen to it, and buy records from the folks making it.

I could go on. The tastemakers really aren’t all that; people decide what they want to listened to, and if they don’t hear it on the radio, they find it elsewhere. The so-called tastemakers merely pick up on trends and try to sell it. But the fact is that 90% of all major label records sell only a few thousand copies, and the labels stay afloat because every once in a blue moon they stumble on a hit.

 

[Huggy Love]

real music, played by real musicians.

Synths, drum machines, and yes, auto-tune, in the right hands, sound very good.

but it’s intellectually lazy to sit around and criticize the damn tools.

You know I respect your opinion Lesteban, but this one was full of fluff & poo poo, and these are the only statements worth addressing.

-Real music is played by musicians *NOT* machines, otherwise it's just a paper roll in a player piano and sounds as sterile as wind up music box.

-Drum machines & autotune *NEVER* sounds good to me, but *AGAIN* people have been programmed to accept this mediocrity for decades and many don't know any better.

-It's "intellectually lazy" to go along with the flow, especially when the vast majority of that flow has uneducated ears and poor taste.


Today's music is very shallow & superficial, there's no getting around it, all you have to do is google it and you'll see tons of things written about this. Maybe I should have said AUTOMATION is the musical devil instead of just saying "technology", but I stick to my guns, automated music is trash. I don't deny I'm in the minority of the world that listens to jazz and turns the station as soon as I hear a drum machine beat, but I'm cool with that.

....... and I hope you noticed I left out synths in that whole statement................. cause you can actually play them without programming them, just ask Chick Corea, Jan Hammer and all the cats from P-Funk..

 

[Wakester]

Just my brain voicing its opinion here, but we cannot escape the digital age. All the toys that are being used to adjust, enhance and modify our voices, our guitars, keyboards, drums etc. are cheap and accessible nowadays. Singing lessons are expensive and time consuming, why learn how to sing, when we have machines to make us 'sing like angels'. Old school amps and cabs are expensive and heavy, why carry (or buy) a heavy amp to practice or the show, when we can emulate any amp/cab out there, plus effects. The companies are catering to the younger generations that want cheaper lighter and easier. They are catering to laziness. Look at the Combo Practice Amp market, Marshal, Fender, Blackstar, Boss/Roland, all produce amps that are entirely digital, reasonably cheap and compact. They produce in varying degrees sounds that rival the legendary Amps and Cabs of old, with a reliability that exceeds those old rigs. Everything is programmed, most with attachment to computers and the internet, some with your phone.

And for what its worth, and not to sound too hypocritical, but, I am looking at these very same amps, for the very same reasons. I can't afford a Marshall Stack and a Pedal board, much less a JC-120. I can however afford a Blackstar ID Core 40H or a Marshall Core 50 and get all the same sounds. So, ultimately in boils down to economics. Record companies make more money by enhancing their singers to sound like someone else, Amp companies make more money by making their amps sound like something they are not, and we the people buy into every cent of it.