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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shawn@PRS, Jan 30, 2017.
Bring the archtop to the core lineup! I will preorder on day one!
me too. I meant about the Santana. Your problems with the white whale are your own.
Have any retros actually shipped? I google search at least seven times a day.
I was talkin' about the SE. I wouldn't dare paint a Santana Retro unless it was in a fire or somethin'.
Not to ask a stupid question but how is the archtop different from he hollowbody
Very nice catalog, Shawn. I really love PRS guitars. As matter of fact I'm selling all my other guitars because I just don't play them because I don't like them much compared to my PRS's. Lol
I have been sold on PRS since I got my first one in 1988. Today I have 3 PRS guitars, two of which I bought used. My fav is a gorgeous Faded Blue Burst, 2012 P22. I also have a very nice natural 2005 Anniversary HB1 and a 2014 S2 Custom 24 in scarlet red. Right now I’m looking at ordering a new Hollowbody ii Artist package. IMHO the sound of the older HB1’s with the archtop pickups remind me of the Gretsch HB sound. They have that smoother more acoustic sound rather than the Gibson 335 mid-range bark. However, the newer HB2’s ever since the 57/08’s and now with the 58/15’s seem to have more of that 335 ish tone. I’m not saying that either tone is an exact match for the guitars I mention. Just that there’s a resemblance IMHO. This is just my general observation. Feel free to correct me if I’m in error here. Anyway, I’ll get back to the HB2 in a moment. As much as I love PRS I have a few observations that concern me as a customer.
Number one, while this won’t affect my order, I think the standards for what qualifies as a 10 top have lowered quite a bit in recent years. I have seen so-called 10 tops that have dark areas or areas that lose definition on the grain causing a smeared type look. In years past, I don't think those would have qualified for a 10 top. While I admit that I occasionally see a non 10 top that looks like it could be a 10 top those are few and far between these days. I want to be clear that I'm not saying all 10 tops shouldn't be, just that I’ve seen quite a few shouldn't be and I can't help wondering what’s going on with that. Is it a cost/profit issue? Yes, I know this has a level of subjectivity but IMHO, today's artist series is what 10 tops used to be.
Now here's my other issue that has so far kept me from placing my order for the guitar I really want. I want to order an artist series Hollowbody ii and have been quoted $xxxx from my Sweetwater rep. which is a pretty good and fair price for the options I want to add onto the guitar. I have no problem paying this for it. My problem is that I see so many of them in the same price range or even for less with a minor alteration to the stock colors (custom colors too) but they don't want to let me order one that way. They let dealers come in and order from the wood library and get custom colors which the dealers price very well but won’t let me order one unless I go Private Stock. They have a list of colors for the artist series and I get that they want to keep it simple. But how hard is it to take a violet and add a blue or purple wrap to it? I'm not seeing how it's really that difficult because they are already taking the time to do the natural stain on the mahogany in between the tops (along with neck and binding) so how much harder can it be to just do a wrap/burst instead? The problem for me is that I don't like the look of the light stained mahogany between the body and on the neck but love the color on the tops. When I'm spending $xxxx on guitar I don't want to have to settle for something I don't like that should be able to be changed. Some of the colors they offer with the artist package like the faded blue burst have the same level of difficulty as what I'm wanting them to do with the violet. Here's another one, they offer faded whale blue but you can't get the faded whale blue smoke burst. However, they offer many burst guitars in the artist series. Same amount of work....but I guess it's just too inconvenient for a premier guitar builder to do that on a premier guitar being sold at a premier price. What they do for the dealer is not what they do for the little guy who I thought Paul was trying to work for. On this level of guitar there should be more than one options on the color of the wood between the maple tops without having to switch to a whole other color. For some reason, it's too much to ask for on a $xxxx guitar.
I’ve seen many videos of Paul talking about the guitars he builds. He seems like a very genuine, nice guy who has a passion for building guitars the way guitar players want. He comes across as the kind of guy with whom you’d spend several hours talking gear over a beer. Lol When I consider the investment this is to me, I don’t understand how the philosophies he espouses are upheld in a consistent manner when they don’t appear to be applied to a customer with my issue. I say this with great love and respect for your company.
10 tops are graded by experienced wood pickers in-house. There are both objective and subjective points to evaluate. If you see a 10 top that doesn't float your boat, the solution is obvious.
When it comes to other options, such as custom colors or blends, the answer is quite simple. For X guitar, you get to choose from this list of options. If it isn't on the list, it is not an option you can order.
Companies do that to delineate value, both real and perceived, between product lines. If you aren't happy with the delineations, there really isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
I'm not trying to be harsh, That's just the way it is. PRS builds and sets their prices for the guitars, amps and options. You get to decide if you agree with their valuation by making a buying/passing decision.
...just a reminder. We are asked not to discuss dealer pricing. The linked catalog shows suggested pricing. That should give you a starting point when talking directly with your dealer.
The archtop was much thicker - an inch or so.
The result is a very different feel and sound.
Thanks for your reply. I'm more talking about what I am paying than the specifics of the exact ending price I'm getting which is why I didn't spell out the exact options. While I appreciate your comments I've been aware of everything you said. At the same time, if we don't use our voices to speak our thoughts to the company then they will never know what we think and what changes we would like to see. You can be on their side and buy all the excuses for not doing the one thing I'm asking for. But when I'm spending $xxxx on the most expensive guitar I've ever bought, what I'm asking for shouldn't be that big of a deal. For some perspective, that's about double what I paid for my new custom 24 in 2003 and is probably the most I will ever spend on a single guitar in my life time. So forgive me for being choosy wanting a small change to make the guitar exactly as I want it to be. After spending $xk I shouldn't have to settle for a color between the tops that I hate because I love the color of the tops. And from the way Paul talks he should understand that. Now the question is, does Paul really mean what he says when he says He cares about what he delivers to his customers? (Saw it in a video) No amount of excuses are going to change my mind on this. Right now I'm holding onto my $xxxx out of principle and while its unlikely, there is a chance I could take my business elsewhere. Just because "That's the way it is" doesn't mean it shouldn't change. As a matter of fact, I'm checking into possibilities with Gibson Hollowbodies as a change of direction even though it's not the make I want I will spend less for the hollowbody sound. If Paul doesn't want a happy customer for $x and a simple request maybe Gibson does.
Sounds like you want a custom guitar. While PRS does offer -some- customization with their Artist Package, there are limits.
If you want a personalized, custom guitar, order a private Stock.
Fender has it's Custom Shop which offers -some- customization, but if you want to call all the shots, you go "Master Built.
Same with Gibson...
I don't know if you saw the post right before the last one but I'm wanting one minor tweak to an artist package guitar that they already do for some of the colors. I'm not paying several thousand dollars more to move to a Private stock to get that one tweak. I just want a different color between the violet tops than the light mahogany. Give me blue, violet, black, I'd rather have a blue or violet wrap. Anything other than than light mahogany look. That's it. I'm not even asking them to do the binding tape off. That's all I'm asking for on a $x guitar and they already do that on some of the other colors. I'm beginning to think that Paul doesn't care as much as he says. This is a small thing for a $x guitar.
It IS NOT a small thing if your factory is geared to run a certain way. Changing one random feature on one instrument is probably a bigger deal than any of us think. That's why they have a menu for Artist Pack guitars, and there are limits on what dealers can order for Wood Library guitars. As Jamie said, if you want something exactly what you want, you or any other buyer has to go private stock.
I get it. You want a custom color that they don't offer. Probably one they've never tired.
Let's say they try it and it doesn't come out the way you thought it would.Will you still buy it?
Or will they now be stuck with a custom color guitar no one wants?
They know what they can and can't do. If you go Private Stock, you're paying for the extra color choices and time it takes to develop a new stain color/technique...
You have no idea how much of a "small thing" it is unless you've actually stained guitars. Certain woods take stains differently. Some colors work well on maple but not on mahogany.
There are a multitude of reasons why they may or may not agree to your requests.
If you want custom, pay for custom. It's really that easy...
It's not a custom color they never tried. I've seen wraps and bursts etc. on the violet tops. They do the same amount of work for the fade blue burst. It's not that different.
By the way, I'm voicing my opinion so they eventually hear what people think. That's part of the purpose for forums like this. I'm asking that they offer more than one color option on the mahogany for HBii Artist packages that aren't burst colors, so you don't have to be stuck with one color. And it is my opinion that I shouldn't have to go buy a private stock guitar for that one tweak. So y'all can stop telling me that one. If $x isn't enough to get this done then maybe Paul doesn't deserve my business.
Fixed it for ya.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. If I am understanding you correctly, your opinion is PRS should change their SOP so you can get the color you want in an upgraded production guitar....So what you're really asking for is a Private Stock for $x. I'd be all over that
I get that you are ticked you can't have your color with the back color you want. I get this scenario at my office all the time...staff wants to change standard policy for a couple people who don't have a certain insurance, or can only come at 4:32 on Wednesday as long as it's an odd numbered day. We aren't changing standards for 1 or 2 people. Get a whole bunch of people together with the same gripe and maybe you'll get someone's attention at PRS.
Seriously, This one tweak does not equal private stock. I'm looking at a Hollowbody ii so it's not about the back. It's the tiny strip of ugly light mahogany that's between the tops. What I'm asking for is already being done on other artist grade guitars like the faded blue burst, charcoal burst etc. Even the fade whale blue has a different color between the tops. That's all I'm asking for. Something they are ALREADY DOING!
All I can add is.....how does it sound?
But they don't offer it in your color. So what you're asking for is a custom "tweak". The only way to get that is Private Stock.
If they were already doing it, you'd be buying the guitar. Let it go.
This is beginning to edge on trolling. The question has been asked (and answered) multiple times.
Time to move on.
Ehh.. It's really not part of the purpose of forums like these. This is a marketing tool, not R&D.